Why development has stopped?

[rubadub]

Seriously ... you don't need any reflow oven station ... just a 3$ cheap battery power iron is enough for the job for DIY Naze32.
Actually ... even no soldering at all if you get some GY-86 / GY-87 with already pre solder pin.

Hot glue come handy for stick the 10DOF on the STM32 board.

that's not "building a board for under $10", that's slapping together separate components in an attempt to cheaply replicate what an all-in-one design already does & in a much more efficient and effective way.

I also just realized that HK is finally selling their own in-house naze32's, so that'll open up the floodgates to better prices & more availability.

anyway, can we please get off the board subject & back on topic?

It is not about to agree or not .. or to have a different point of view.

You are just plain wrong ... something people should have smell already on your rude post above.

BTW: HobbyKing does not sell an in-house naze32 .. it does sell a licensed board bless by TimeCop

PS: If you avoid posting disinformation, the back in topic it happens much faster.

Based on the above post & your interpretation of what's been written, you clearly have issues with understanding the English language, so I'm not going to entertain & indulge your bullshit more than absolutely necessary.

First, go learn the difference between "building" and "assembling", and then it might help you understand wtf I was referring to.

Also, understand that making a statement like "you are just plain wrong" is blatantly subjective and just as rude as any of the other crap that I may have said to that other obvious troll, so right back at ya, you dickhead.

oh, and, based on that dumb "bless by Timecop" comment, please go google the meaning of the phrase "in-house", and you'll probably find that it doesn't mean what you think it means.

By your comments, you're simply demonstrating exactly what's wrong with the tired, oldskool, cranky, stubborn development community surrounding the MW, with its obsolete ideas, stagnant code base, and failure to get with the times. It's no wonder why timecop is always throwing a fit around here with all the dumbshits like you floating around.

[e_lm_70]

"your rude post above"

Now it is even more evident.

Thanks for make 100% clear your position

[rubadub]

"your rude post above"

Now it is even more evident.

Thanks for make 100% clear your position

you're welcome... now let it go & learn to move on...

So, do you actually have anything constructive to say, or are you just here to troll, be antagonizing, reiterate how much you love MW8's classic procedural, define-ridden, spaghetti code soup while, at the same time, blasting anyone who doesn't share your same opinions or praise your work with the KK2?

nothing to see here, moving on...

Does anyone else have anything worthwhile to share on the subject of cleaning up & revamping the MW infrastructure???

[brewski]

This is why Development has stopped. No more good ideas & stupid in fighting between the branches of MW.
MW needs to build a simple user interface similar to APM where 8 or 32 bit are treated the same & updates happen automatically on download.
In MW if you want advanced GPS such as Missions, Fence, etc you have to know about Eos Bandi . You want 32bit then it gets very complicated if you don't trust Google Chrome . Most flyers I know have never heard of Eos Bandi or Chrome (or have insite to the crap that Google stores on every click you make).
Lets get behind the progression of MW as I believe it has a solid base. I built my first quad using this (8bit AT2560) platform mainly from experimenting with Arduino & from my experiences extremely positive.
Just my 2c worth

[bicycle]

If you don't trust Chrome there is Chromium. It exists for exactly that purpose. The alternative is Java which is 100% untrustable malware and spyware, but it's clear by your chrome-bashing that you don't really know what you're on about.

[rubadub]

If you don't trust Chrome there is Chromium. It exists for exactly that purpose. The alternative is Java which is 100% untrustable malware and spyware, but it's clear by your chrome-bashing that you don't really know what you're on about.

once upon a time, java was considered cool, multi-platform, and cutting edge... nowadays, many just see it as clunky, bug-ridden, a resource hog, and just plain obsolete. the biggest success in Java's favor has been android, which really isn't java in the purest sense, but a google-driven frankenstein hybrid. the standard JVM sucks nut sack.

MW already has a standard, cross-platform interface.... it's called the "MSP", the MW serial protocol, and it's up to the dev community to come up with a set of front-end tools for each platform (via .Net/Windoze, Cpp Mac&linux, droid, iOS, etc.) in order to access this baseline interface.

[kilby]

Sigh

I looked at the multiwii code it's a mess, that's what happens especially in the way multiwii developed.

However don't push object orientated as that creates it's own mess and makes debugging even worse.

People complain about timecop and his views on coding style, however baseflight is readable and that will be a great benefit to anybody who is brave enough to make a submission.

Too much of the bold code base is by people who have hacked something together but don't actually know how to code.

Other bits are by people who have been too clever for their own (or anybody elses) good.

Having been an assembly language coder since the early 80s I have had to fix too much code that 'usually worked'

The Multiwii code base looks like those old nightmares

[fiendie]

Sigh
People complain about timecop and his views on coding style, however baseflight is readable and that will be a great benefit to anybody who is brave enough to make a submission.

Why do you have to be brave to make a submission?
You're welcome to look at the commit history and list of pull requests on github (https://github.com/multiwii/baseflight).
If the patch is useful and properly formatted it's going to get merged. With proper credit and all that jazz.

[rubadub]

Sigh

I looked at the multiwii code it's a mess, that's what happens especially in the way multiwii developed.

However don't push object orientated as that creates it's own mess and makes debugging even worse.

People complain about timecop and his views on coding style, however baseflight is readable and that will be a great benefit to anybody who is brave enough to make a submission.

Too much of the bold code base is by people who have hacked something together but don't actually know how to code.

Other bits are by people who have been too clever for their own (or anybody elses) good.

Having been an assembly language coder since the early 80s I have had to fix too much code that 'usually worked'

The Multiwii code base looks like those old nightmares

I agree with almost everything you said, except for the part about pushing OOP. I'm personally not pushing it just for the sake of using some fancy shmancy coding techniques. I simply think that it can help organize a lot of the MW mess *if done right*. Of course, I realize that you can have clean, light & organized procedural code just as easily as you can have messy, complicated OOP code. It's all about the implementation and the project at hand. How you go about setting it up is what makes the difference.

No matter how you look at it, MW is a mess. Features are constantly being added, removed, and modified (not to mention the issue with board & sensor support). There's a bunch of crappy legacy code that looks like it had a purpose at the beginning, but now just sits there and further obfuscates things.

So, take it or leave it, but this is one of those cases where OOP could probably make a big difference. I'm not saying that you need to have a crazy spider web of class abstraction, just some freakin' organization that will allow for easily adding & adjusting features.

[copterrichie]

Why do you have to be brave to make a submission?
You're welcome to look at the commit history and list of pull requests on github (https://github.com/multiwii/baseflight).
If the patch is useful and properly formatted it's going to get merged. With proper credit and all that jazz.

That is, if you are a member of the GOOD OL'BOYS network, aka Clan, then you are welcome to submit.

[e_lm_70]

I think and strongly hope that most of the recent suggestion here get ignored by the MultiWii developers.

Anyhow ... development had a slow down ... but it did never stop.

I see EOSbandi added the way point navigation into current under development source code.

Quite some code activities done in the last weeks .. very good.

So .. MW 2.4 should be out soon .. with tons of new feature

[brewski]

I think and strongly hope that most of the recent suggestion here get ignored by the MultiWii developers.

Anyhow ... development had a slow down ... but it did never stop.

I see EOSbandi added the way point navigation into current under development source code.

Quite some code activities done in the last weeks .. very good.

So .. MW 2.4 should be out soon .. with tons of new feature

OK stop teasing! let's have some specifics ...

[e_lm_70]

I think and strongly hope that most of the recent suggestion here get ignored by the MultiWii developers.

Anyhow ... development had a slow down ... but it did never stop.

I see EOSbandi added the way point navigation into current under development source code.

Quite some code activities done in the last weeks .. very good.

So .. MW 2.4 should be out soon .. with tons of new feature

OK stop teasing! let's have some specifics ...

All "info" are visible here: https://code.google.com/p/multiwii/sour ... Wii_shared

Quite some activity done in September EOS / Hamburger and Dubusal (?) .... working hard on the code

Unfortunately ... I don't have more info then what everybody cans see from google side

[danhouldsworth]

So .. MW 2.4 should be out soon .. with tons of new feature

Maybe this will seem controversial to some - but this is exactly the problem with the approach to MultiWii (and many other FC's). More bells and whistles is not a good metric for better flight control.

It is an inevitable problem with open source, but quality is more about saying "no" than adding yet another feature until you've sorted the underlying architecture.

Of all the open firmwares:
1) MultiWii (including baseFlight & cleanFlight ports)
2) OpenPilot
3) ArduPilot

they are all trying to be all things to all people. MultiWii, because of its hobbyist roots and smaller code base has the best chance to be the best flight controller. But only if it chooses a direction to focus on, otherwise it will always be a less able cousin of the others.

[fiendie]

That is, if you are a member of the GOOD OL'BOYS network, aka Clan, then you are welcome to submit.

I know it's too much to ask from people like you to click the link I provided but feel free to comb through the list of pull requests. Most of the submitters are random strangers. You're welcome to lurk in the IRC channel and check for yourself.

Sorry that the facts don't fit your preconceived beliefs.

[Leo]

...
All "info" are visible here: https://code.google.com/p/multiwii/sour ... Wii_shared

Well, all I can say as a newbie I'm having a blast with MultiWii! Please keep it up

That being said how/where can I download the very latest dev code? I went to the above link and downloaded all the files individually. However I'm getting a compiler error "GPS_SERIAL was not declared in this scope"

I'd like to test the latest versions

[e_lm_70]

...
All "info" are visible here: https://code.google.com/p/multiwii/sour ... Wii_shared

Well, all I can say as a newbie I'm having a blast with MultiWii! Please keep it up

That being said how/where can I download the very latest dev code? I went to the above link and downloaded all the files individually. However I'm getting a compiler error "GPS_SERIAL was not declared in this scope"

I'd like to test the latest versions

I did not try to compile ....

Instead download one by one .. you can use SVN and download the latest code all in once

So .. my educated guess is:

Are you trying to compile for a atmega348 ?

Try to use the atmega260 option .. and double check the config.h that nothing is missing in the basic configuration.

[copterrichie]

I know it's too much to ask from people like you to click the link I provided but feel free to comb through the list of pull requests. Most of the submitters are random strangers. You're welcome to lurk in the IRC channel and check for yourself.

Sorry that the facts don't fit your preconceived beliefs.

Hmmmm, dominicclifton & Crashpilot1000? Anyway back to the topic at hand of why did development stop.

[Leo]

...
.. you can use SVN and download the latest code all in once
...

SVN ? What is that?

Edit: I figured it out: https://github.com/multiwii/multiwii-firmware

[fiendie]

Hmmmm, dominicclifton & Crashpilot1000? Anyway back to the topic at hand of why did development stop.

So the purveyors of cleanflight and Harakiri of all people are supposed to be members of the ominous Clan?
*ROFLMAO*

And I honestly believe development has slowed, in part, because it is hard for coders not associated with MultiWii's inner circle to get their patches in.
You see where I'm going with this

[treym]

there is1000 people discusing the comment of 100 peoples about the push request of 10 peoples to project mainly owned by a few.

praise the code that those people forgive that foolish thread ...


so .


Ezio , please send me a pm , i dont have your private email/phone.

[Plüschi]

I got the gut feeling this here is bound to die.

Captain prefers to let the ship sink. Devs flee the ship faced with the results of their competence.

I joined here 2 years ago. I did learn quite a lot. But i never got some respect for suggesting stuff or pointing out bugs. Now there is nothing left to learn, and i am not allowed to contribute.

Its time to leave. <immagine sad face icon here>

[ezio]

I got the gut feeling this here is bound to die.

Captain prefers to let the ship sink. Devs flee the ship faced with the results of their competence.

I joined here 2 years ago. I did learn quite a lot. But i never got some respect for suggesting stuff or pointing out bugs. Now there is nothing left to learn, and i am not allowed to contribute.

Its time to leave. <immagine sad face icon here>

sad reality:(

[copterrichie]

I see no reason why some talented person or persons can not pick up the ball and run with it. Only requirement is, give credit to the source.

[sismeiro]

I see no reason why some talented person or persons can not pick up the ball and run with it. Only requirement is, give credit to the source.

Also some other projects like the Linux kernel managed to address and give guidelines to people (http://www.kroah.com/log/linux/howto.html) when contributing to the project. In the end it's all about human behaviour.

Working with the community

The goal of the kernel community is to provide the best possible kernel there is. When you submit a patch for acceptance, it will be reviewed on its technical merits and those alone. So, what should you be expecting?

criticism
comments
requests for change
requests for justification
silence

Remember, this is part of getting your patch into the kernel. You have to be able to take criticism and comments about your patches, evaluate them at a technical level and either rework your patches or provide clear and concise reasoning as to why those changes should not be made. If there are no responses to your posting, wait a few days and try again, sometimes things get lost in the huge volume.

What should you not do?

expect your patch to be accepted without question
become defensive
ignore comments
resubmit the patch without making any of the requested changes

In a community that is looking for the best technical solution possible, there will always be differing opinions on how beneficial a patch is. You have to be cooperative, and willing to adapt your idea to fit within the kernel. Or at least be willing to prove your idea is worth it. Remember, being wrong is acceptable as long as you are willing to work toward a solution that is right.

It is normal that the answers to your first patch might simply be a list of a dozen things you should correct. This does not imply that your patch will not be accepted, and it is not meant against you personally. Simply correct all issues raised against your patch and resend it.

This is how it's done in open projects. Projects live and die, all depends of the people behind them. If one approach doesn't work, try another one, be a leader.

MultiWii 2.4 is almost here, it has a lot of new features to play and with the help of the excellent Android app made by Ezio, we have a killer combination. I hope it stills fly as well as always.

[copterrichie]

Linux is the perfect example, look at the MANY favors such as Ubuntu, Debian, Redhat, openSUSE just to name a few. So again, there is nothing preventing anyone wanting to create their own distribution.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Li ... tributions

[brewski]

With good quality clone APM 2.5/2.6 boards complete with case & genuine 3DR not much more now selling at same price point as Crius AIOP 2560 I think MW days are numbered unless someone builds a cheap easily programmable (using similar GUI user control interface as APM does) 32bit board to run the MW code. At least this 32bit technology will provide enough power to do the maths natively as well as providing loads of non volatile RAM & EEProm.
I have one of the clone APM 2.5 boards & on close inspection can see that quality of build is way ahead of even the best MW such as Crius AIOP V2 which I run in my first build.
It is so much easier for someone to clone APM because the silly buggers put all the schematics & Gerber PCB files in public domain in true Open Source way.
Try to get schematics & Gerber files for Crius FCs ..good luck

My next build is using this APM 2.5 on a 450 Quad. My experience so far is very positive. Just plugged in a GPS/Mag (clone as well but advertised as APM compatible) & it just worked. No hours of troubleshooting & endless Ublox UCentre + Config.h mods.
As this quad is built for FPV I wanted an OSD to feed into my 5.8Ghz video.
Bought an APM compatible minim OSD just plugged it into the OSD port & it was detected & just worked without configuration!

This is the same ATMega 2560 based technology that we are using in MW but obviously miles ahead. That said the latest V3.2 release is aimed at 32bit boards (both 8bit & 32bit get the same upgrades in APM unless you stop it), and V3.2 is pushing limits of AT2560 so many features are automatically disabled when 8 bit processors are detected.
It is apparent that APM is ending support on 8 bit processors & I think MW should do the same, especially as 32bit processors are now way cheaper & have so much more capability to do realtime calculations with memory to spare.

[sismeiro]

My next build is using this APM 2.5 on a 450 Quad. My experience so far is very positive. Just plugged in a GPS/Mag (clone as well but advertised as APM compatible) & it just worked. No hours of troubleshooting & endless Ublox + Config.h mods. As this quad is built for FPV I wanted an OSD to feed into my 5.8Ghz video.

But what's the fun in that? I agree with you, if we want to have advanced GPS features and don't have do mess around with configurations maybe APM is best but if you want to try something on your on, develop something new and different the only option is the MultiWii code. APM code is too complicated to customize and this is one of the best things of MultiWii, you can grab the source and easily adapt it to your own needs.

If you just want to fly there are some simple MultiWii controllers out there named Flip that are plug-&-play, no need to mess around with configurations. I believe that MultiWii should make the step to 32bit computing but for me there is a warm feeling and happiness when using an Arduino compatible board to hack with and put it to fly.

A long time ago one person proposed to change the code of MultiWii to something more like the normal C code development model instead of the original and difficult to maintain code. That person proposed and worked with it with agreement of Alex and completed the task. Also when have the new GPS code because some one grabbed the code and worked with it. The code was good and a new MultiWii version will soon be launched with it. This are just two exemples but many other changes to the code were made like this.

The same can happen if we want to jump to 32 bit and I think the hard part is already made but I think it must be in sync with the rest of the MultiWii code but maybe that's the difficult part. Supporting several architectures with the same code base presents a new set of challenges. Maybe some one will step forward when 2.4 is released, I think it's the natural step. Don't we have any graduate here who would like to propose this kind of project to their mentors? That's almost the same that Linus did, ported the Linux kernel to other architecture has a university project, if I am not mistaken.

[copterrichie]

I think adapting WMC to run on the APM hardware would be a major step in the longevity of this project. As stated, with the availability of this hardware and the decision of the APM development team to suspend support, there is plenty of room for WMC to grow. I have personally loaded WMC 2.2 on to the APM 2.6 hardware however because APM uses SPI to communicate with the MPU-6000, the Gyro and ACC did not work but all else did.

[brewski]

I think adapting WMC to run on the APM hardware would be a major step in the longevity of this project. As stated, with the availability of this hardware and the decision of the APM development team to suspend support, there is plenty of room for WMC to grow. I have personally loaded WMC 2.2 on to the APM 2.6 hardware however because APM uses SPI to communicate with the MPU-6000, the Gyro and ACC did not work but all else did.

I agree. It should not be that difficult to change code to communicate with MPU-6000. These APM 2.5/2.6/2.7 & mini APM clone boards also have onboard flash RAM for datalogging. The beauty of these designs is that there is one hardware standard with defined sensors so very easy to support & do upgrades. As I mentioned the PCB board files as well as schematics are freely available to anyone. It is virtually impossible to get same for any of the Multiwii boards making troubleshooting & even interfacing a nightmare. There is also a huge range of add on sensors inc Optical Flow, Lidar, Airspeed etc plus controller boards that can be added.

[Rob]

Maybe its time to design a new Multiwii controller with everything we want on it........

With good quality components and designed with Multiwii toughts.......