angular calculation issue ?

[Paulmann]

Hi,

I got my new HK_328 board and uploaded 2.2.
When I move the board around I can find some positions where MultiwiiConf instantly shows a flip of 90 Degrees.
Also the shown motor Outputs react (in angle mode).
Whenever Z-acc is very near zero (simulated extreme manoveure with quad hanging vertical in air) the angular calculation gives an output
as if quad would be in horizontal hovering.
Could someone check If gets the same result.

thx

[Sebbi]

That is called gimbal lock and is to be expected. Angles are calculated from a gravity vector and we'll have to live with this problem ... if you plan on doing 3D flying the angle stuff isn't relevant since you'll use gyro only anyways

[Paulmann]

Thanks Sebbi,

after I googled gimbal lock, I understand the problem in the following way:

when the Quad is vertical the angular calculation cant decide which path is the best to move back to horizontal position.
It could rotate the quad with any axis in x-y plane. All are equal-valued.

Then 2 new question arise:

could this happen too when Z-Acc is zero by a "ballistic trajectory " (free fall or after a fast climb up)
could the instant step irritate the PIDs and give a severe overreaction

[Watz]

... when I make a double flip,
my copter goes to one side and can't be controlled any more.
When I only make one flip I have no problem like that.

[Sebbi]

could this happen too when Z-Acc is zero by a "ballistic trajectory " (free fall or after a fast climb up)
could the instant step irritate the PIDs and give a severe overreaction

1) this is only a problem if you fly in angle/horizon mode where the copter can't be tilted by more than X degrees ... i don't know what happens if this situation happens though ... just fly in acro mode (gyro only) if you plan on doing acrobatics
2) pitch/roll is only corrected when the magnitude of the accerlation is in a certain area (around 1 G). Otherwise it's just angular rate that determines the angles, so fast climbs or free fall wont use the accelerometer.
3) overreaction? see 1) i don't know what happenes ... has somebody flipped their copter in horizon mode and did it recover by itself then?

[Hamburger]

3) overreaction? see 1) i don't know what happenes ... has somebody flipped their copter in horizon mode and did it recover by itself then?

I have successfully used horizon mode via a tx switch to rescue my MWii helicopter when it was upside down in acro mode and I had gotten scared.

[felixrising]

Is this the same issue I'm seeing? If I roll the quad left or right, as it transitions from 89 to 90 degrees (Roll CW) or -89 to -90 degrees (roll CCW) it momentarily shows a value of -90 degrees from either 90 for roll CW (ie 0 degrees) and -90 for roll CCW (ie -180 degrees) respectively. I don't see how this is Gimbal lock as it's only on a single axis and occurs at both 90 and -90 degree transition.