Altitude Hold improvement solution

vpb · Post by **vpb** » Wed Nov 14, 2012 11:13 am

Hi, maybe you should hold the arming-stick longer than before. That way I can trim ACC now.

vpb · Post by **vpb** » Wed Nov 14, 2012 11:18 am

@Mahowik: About % throttle at the hover point, how about hard-coded mid RC throttle value? Will it be more precise than percentage? With frsky telemetry we can read the throttle value at hover point.

dramida · Post by **dramida** » Fri Nov 16, 2012 8:36 am

Hello, I noticed that latest MWC zip file that i previously tested it was removed from Mahowik branch due to some unresolved "issues". Do we have anything new to test this coming weekend?

vpb · Post by **vpb** » Fri Nov 16, 2012 9:14 am

On r1271, mahowik has rolled back with log message: "rollback changes as not stable yet...".
I'm still flying ok, hello Mahowik?

wilco1967 · Post by **wilco1967** » Sat Nov 17, 2012 9:00 am

no issues here also on version just before rollback..... flies just fine (better then ever before in fact...).

What where the issues ?

dramida · Post by **dramida** » Sat Nov 17, 2012 1:16 pm

The altitude control works very good, the only issues where about arming/disarming that could be inherited from main trunk.Specifically, on Crius AIO PRO board, quad mode with camstab, buzzer, GPS, Vbat- enabled, i couldn't arm the copter from the first time, i had to try several times. Also in Altitude control mode, i was able to disarm the copter with yaw right.
But i repeat, the main objectives where achieved, meaning a better altitude control. I would be very happy that MWC 2.2 prerelease could include these new features

dramida · Post by **dramida** » Mon Nov 19, 2012 9:51 pm

I don't get it:

After successfully implementation of altitude variation control by Mahowik almost two weeks ago, the shared trunk code remains the same. Let me remind you how nice the altitude control works, here is the video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Sa-oyJ4Ljs

And in case the code is no longer availabe on Mahowik branch, i attached a zip file with the MWC source code you see flying in video above.

jevermeister · Post by **jevermeister** » Mon Nov 19, 2012 10:26 pm

hi,
there is a list of people who can alter code over at the google code repository. I looked into my mqilbox today and found no mail regarding this.
I did not follow this thread closely enough to feel adressed to upload this code.

I would suggest to contact one of the devs to merge the code. How should those guys know
about that. There was no command to do so.
Do you expect them to sit and wait for every idea and development to be ready to merge?

please contact one of the devs directly and wait for negative or positive feedback.
I can only speak for myself here: I always have a hard time merging code that is to complicated for me to understand. I could fuck up the code without knowing why and how should I fix thise bugs...

Nils
ps.: I do not want to rant, just want you to understand some devs. ;-)

pps.:I like your fantastic work - If only I could understand these algorythms :-\

vpb · Post by **vpb** » Tue Nov 20, 2012 7:03 am

dramida wrote:I don't get it:

And in case the code is no longer availabe on Mahowik branch, i attached a zip file with the MWC source code you see flying in video above.

Hi dramida, if you want a merged version that Mahowik did on the main trunk, just checkout the version before he removed it

Code: Select all

svn co http://multiwii.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/MultiWii_shared -r 1268

And mahowik branch, with the zip file

Code: Select all

svn co http://multiwii.googlecode.com/svn/branches/Mahowik -r 1268

It's always there.

vpb · Post by **vpb** » Tue Nov 20, 2012 7:27 am

jevermeister wrote:I can only speak for myself here: I always have a hard time merging code that is to complicated for me to understand. I could fuck up the code without knowing why and how should I fix thise bugs...

You merge the code manually by hand? without the confliction code, you can always merge code by command.

jevermeister · Post by **jevermeister** » Tue Nov 20, 2012 10:44 am

I am not merging by hand but I want to understand the code I contribute. I wanted to say, that I have a bad feeling everytime I commit something for someone I do not fully understand.

nils

mahowik · Post by **mahowik** » Tue Nov 20, 2012 5:42 pm

Hi guys,

Sorry for delays... My plans was little bit changed...
To be honest I did enough for the mwii project and comunity and it's time to do something for myself...
So now I'm trying to copy naza behaviour related to AH functions and altitude ascend/descend and going to distribute (individually) the firmware in *.hex format with flash tool/script...

I hope for your understanding...

thx-
Alex

copterrichie · Post by **copterrichie** » Tue Nov 20, 2012 5:47 pm

I am not surprised, wish you well.

mahowik · Post by **mahowik** » Tue Nov 20, 2012 5:52 pm

what you are not surprised?! You know me very well?

copterrichie · Post by **copterrichie** » Tue Nov 20, 2012 5:53 pm

I am not surprised at your course of action, nothing else to say.

alexia · Post by **alexia** » Tue Nov 20, 2012 6:23 pm

mahowik wrote:Hi guys,

Sorry for delays... My plans was little bit changed...
To be honest I did enough for the mwii project and comunity and it's time to do something for myself...
So now I'm trying to copy naza behaviour related to AH functions and altitude ascend/descend and going to distribute (individually) the firmware in *.hex format with flash tool/script...

I hope for your understanding...

thx-
Alex

thanks for you hard working.
i understand if you want working for yourself.you are already made lots of for the communauty
thanks again
alexia

vpb · Post by **vpb** » Tue Nov 20, 2012 6:29 pm

You've done a big improvement Mahowik, I guess dramida will miss you much

. Have luck with your plan!

kataventos · Post by **kataventos** » Tue Nov 20, 2012 6:47 pm

What a f

k is happenning here? :shock:

Can someone explain?

alexia · Post by **alexia** » Tue Nov 20, 2012 7:06 pm

nothing..just mahowick want to use is free time for other things
i hope that he doesn t move out of this incredible project

kipkool · Post by **kipkool** » Tue Nov 20, 2012 7:14 pm

That's a pity but it's your choice of course.

As Multiwii is GPL, binary distribution without source is not an option, does this means you will develop a new flightcontroller code from scratch ?

mahowik · Post by **mahowik** » Tue Nov 20, 2012 9:24 pm

kipkool wrote:As Multiwii is GPL, binary distribution without source is not an option, does this means you will develop a new flightcontroller code from scratch ?

nothing decided exactly yet... but in any case thanks for the info...

NikTheGreek · Post by **NikTheGreek** » Tue Nov 20, 2012 9:27 pm

Probably you will not count my opinion..

But ..... there is any chance to reconsider your decision ?

Polleke · Post by **Polleke** » Wed Nov 21, 2012 8:46 am

Hi Mohawik,
Thanks for the great work you've done

Wishing you all the best.
Hoped you'd say: "I'll be back!"

timecop · Post by **timecop** » Wed Nov 21, 2012 9:18 am

mahowik wrote:Hi guys,

Sorry for delays... My plans was little bit changed...
To be honest I did enough for the mwii project and comunity and it's time to do something for myself...
So now I'm trying to copy naza behaviour related to AH functions and altitude ascend/descend and going to distribute (individually) the firmware in *.hex format with flash tool/script...

I hope for your understanding...

thx-
Alex

lol, naza.
will you add the magic wobble too?
can't wait!

dramida · Post by **dramida** » Wed Nov 21, 2012 9:51 am

Mahowik, move your ass back here and stop fooling around with binary distribution nonsense witch contradicts the GPL licence. If you are not working in a team, you'll end up wasteing your time.
If you want to do some good money with Multiwii, offer technical support for local/global users and/or do aerial pictures or video ( i do the same here http://www.fae-drones.com ). Open your own topic/branch with a big donate button on first post also will help. For more marketing strategies i would have to charge you

dr.tom · Post by **dr.tom** » Wed Nov 21, 2012 1:12 pm

don't kill the messenger,
I know that this my video is not taken by multirotor,
but just wanted to show how accurate can an old BMP085 sensor be, I still can't believe it.
on my multirotors I have MS5611 and although it does work better than BMP, it's still no 'Naza like' alt. hold.

watch the second half of the movie, on ground it says 0,when raised it says 2m, no drift and accurate,
in flight it can maintain altitude +/-1m even in 10km long run, no drift!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zbk3ipTg ... 9A7DD761A7

It must be the code that makes all that difference, if someone is willing to dig deeper...

this OSD http://www.himodel.com/FPV_Telemetry/CY ... W_GPS.html
author of software is: Extraline http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/member.php?u=72169

(alt is not maintained by gps, I have also previous version 'Nova osd', it used gps for that and had a lot of oscilations, this uses baro for that)

copterrichie · Post by **copterrichie** » Wed Nov 21, 2012 1:38 pm

Within any given group of people and there is no exception here, there is going to be differences of opinions and personality clashes if GROUP THINK is not at play. There will even be a few trolls :mrgreen:

, so lets not allow this fine outstanding group accomplishment to become tainted by harsh feelings. Now get back to work, all of you!!!

Groupthink is a psychological phenomenon that occurs within groups of people, in which the desire for harmony in a decision-making group overrides a realistic appraisal of alternatives. Group members try to minimize conflict and reach a consensus decision without critical evaluation of alternative ideas or viewpoints. Antecedent factors such as group cohesiveness, structural faults, and situational context play into the likelihood of whether or not groupthink will impact the decision-making process.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Group_think

kataventos · Post by **kataventos** » Wed Nov 21, 2012 2:53 pm

dramida wrote:Mahowik, move your ass back here and stop fooling around with binary distribution nonsense witch contradicts the GPL licence. If you are not working in a team, you'll end up wasteing your time.
If you want to do some good money with Multiwii, offer technical support for local/global users and/or do aerial pictures or video ( i do the same here http://www.fae-drones.com ). Open your own topic/branch with a big donate button on first post also will help. For more marketing strategies i would have to charge you

kataventos · Post by **kataventos** » Wed Nov 21, 2012 3:04 pm

dr.tom wrote:don't kill the messenger,
I know that this my video is not taken by multirotor,
but just wanted to show how accurate can an old BMP085 sensor be, I still can't believe it.
on my multirotors I have MS5611 and although it does work better than BMP, it's still no 'Naza like' alt. hold.

watch the second half of the movie, on ground it says 0,when raised it says 2m, no drift and accurate,
in flight it can maintain altitude +/-1m even in 10km long run, no drift!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zbk3ipTg ... 9A7DD761A7

It must be the code that makes all that difference, if someone is willing to dig deeper...

this OSD http://www.himodel.com/FPV_Telemetry/CY ... W_GPS.html
author of software is: Extraline http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/member.php?u=72169

(alt is not maintained by gps, I have also previous version 'Nova osd', it used gps for that and had a lot of oscilations, this uses baro for that)

What is so yuuupi on that? This is how multiwii ALT code is working with this OSD.

http://youtu.be/QQKaCK15iKQ

dr.tom · Post by **dr.tom** » Wed Nov 21, 2012 4:13 pm

nice,
but I am talking about 'alt hold', not 'alt display'.
in GUI my MWii also responses to 10cm change, nice to watch, but in air it's not so good. drifts by time...

...back to your OSD
how does it fly?
it's under development as written in video,
this is tested and flying as we speek. and controls altitude very good.

that's why I linked author of it so if someone has skill to look into his code(which works on common sensor used in mwii)
and see what could eventually be applied to mwc code.

I like the plug in option of your OSD, because that saves cable clutter, weight and price
(no need for double sensors onboard)

keep up the good work

kataventos · Post by **kataventos** » Wed Nov 21, 2012 4:22 pm

dr.tom wrote:nice,
in GUI my MWii also responses to 10cm change, nice to watch, but in air it's not so good. drifts by time...

...back to your linked OSD
how does it fly?
it's under development as written in video,
this is tested and flying as we speek.

I like the plug in option, because that saves weight and price(no need for double sensors onboard)
keep up the good work

Yes we still have some oscillations of a few cm I think that this is awesome already. About flying drift, we will see.
As soon as the weather let me I will upload a flying video

but I´m "sure :geek:

" it will behave well. I let you know soon.

mahowik · Post by **mahowik** » Wed Nov 21, 2012 6:10 pm

timecop wrote:
mahowik wrote:Hi guys,

Sorry for delays... My plans was little bit changed...
To be honest I did enough for the mwii project and comunity and it's time to do something for myself...
So now I'm trying to copy naza behaviour related to AH functions and altitude ascend/descend and going to distribute (individually) the firmware in *.hex format with flash tool/script...

I hope for your understanding...

thx-
Alex

lol, naza.
will you add the magic wobble too?
can't wait!

You doubt?!

I almost finished with vario controlled altitude ascend/descend for AH mode according to naza behavior (description was provided from naza-users from russian forum) and it's already tested by some guys... works nice!

- center is 50% (1500)
- autocalibration of hovering throttle
- now it's even possible take off/fly up (just arm -> switch AH -> increase throttle smoothly - > after center it starts to take off)
- simple landing (just set desired vertical speed descend by stick... e.g. 0.5m/s and when it near land, just move throttle stick to min to avoid ground effect)

What news with your naze32? Also why you call it naze?! NAZA?!

How is your port of my AH solution, you still didn't get it working? LOL

p.s. I don't know WTF means "magic wobble"...

Crashpilot1000 · Post by **Crashpilot1000** » Wed Nov 21, 2012 6:32 pm

Hmmmmm.... already done....viewtopic.php?f=8&t=2371&start=300#p26094

mahowik · Post by **mahowik** » Wed Nov 21, 2012 6:38 pm

Crashpilot1000 wrote:Hmmmmm.... already done....viewtopic.php?f=8&t=2371&start=300#p26094

with vario PID controller (to make it independent from copter configuration)?

Crashpilot1000 · Post by **Crashpilot1000** » Wed Nov 21, 2012 6:59 pm

In my opinion Vario PID is not needed. It get things unneccessary compilcated. My solution works quiet well with different copters. No need to do APM style and add a seperate PID controller for every movement. Anyway in the meantime i did an autoland as well wich can be easily upgraded with GPS functions. EEprom space is getting low - i think i will have to upgrade. But i refuse to spend any more money into 8 bit. Just my 2 cents.

alexia · Post by **alexia** » Wed Nov 21, 2012 7:57 pm

dramida wrote:Mahowik, move your ass back here and stop fooling around with binary distribution nonsense witch contradicts the GPL licence. If you are not working in a team, you'll end up wasteing your time.
If you want to do some good money with Multiwii, offer technical support for local/global users and/or do aerial pictures or video ( i do the same here http://www.fae-drones.com ). Open your own topic/branch with a big donate button on first post also will help. For more marketing strategies i would have to charge you

+10000000
come back here

msev · Post by **msev** » Wed Nov 21, 2012 10:04 pm

Mahowik on which hardware do you plan to run your .hex's?

Magnetron · Post by **Magnetron** » Wed Nov 21, 2012 10:35 pm

mahowik wrote:Hi guys,

Sorry for delays... My plans was little bit changed...
To be honest I did enough for the mwii project and comunity and it's time to do something for myself...
So now I'm trying to copy naza behaviour related to AH functions and altitude ascend/descend and going to distribute (individually) the firmware in *.hex format with flash tool/script...

I hope for your understanding...

thx-
Alex

I understand your idea. I share your thought.
I leave multiwii project for now, I am trying my self code on my copters, in the future I can go back, but for the moment I think just like you.

kataventos · Post by **kataventos** » Wed Nov 21, 2012 11:09 pm

After taking a close look to some "different" topics on this forum (I saw them for some time now but... I just thought it was not so serious).
I think like a friend of mine that said "Alex should come forward before it is to late".
I must say well done my friends your contribution´s were/are amazing.

dramida · Post by **dramida** » Thu Nov 22, 2012 12:36 am

I can't belive that Mahowik, Timecop and Crashpilot1000 argue each other for hall of fame MWC codding. It's room for everyone to be important in this project: gps waypoint navi, autolanding , failsafe routine, adding numerous improvements - lists are there,

vpb · Post by **vpb** » Thu Nov 22, 2012 7:05 am

so all "sad" people here can't live without alt-hold

? and MultiWii is just that? It's improved (thanks to Mahowik) and will be improved again by someone later, there're good coders are flying multiwii out there. Alt-hold is acceptable now?

I see so many interesting features outside this topic, many nice & kind developers, please help they test & improve, instead of waiting, arguing, asking for more here.

Rainer · Post by **Rainer** » Thu Nov 22, 2012 7:19 am

if we look back once a year and Multiwii compare to him stood from today.

there has been performed very much a lot, my thanks go to the developers.

one should not be also forgotten the people have seated its spare time for it.

Thanks for this excellent work.

scrat · Post by **scrat** » Thu Nov 22, 2012 8:46 am

Thank's to all developers!

Can someone please tell me what is the latest dev version which is working ok. Thx. I'm using now r1177.

vpb · Post by **vpb** » Thu Nov 22, 2012 8:56 am

you can always checkout latest version, it's ok! i'm flying r1275.

shikra · Post by **shikra** » Thu Nov 22, 2012 12:09 pm

Mahowik - I hope you stick around buddy, but understand if you move on.
We are all appreciative of your work....

dramida · Post by **dramida** » Thu Nov 22, 2012 12:48 pm

vpb wrote:I see so many interesting features outside this topic, many nice & kind developers, please help they test & improve, instead of waiting, arguing, asking for more here.

+1

And one other fact:
Multiwii got this rising momentum due to lo cost-high availability hardware doubled by an enthusiastic group of people lead by Alex.
At the moment when MWC was born (early 2010 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LbaFZxh58gw&feature=plcp), the few autonomous flight platforms hardware around cost around 1000 usd. Now the gap has closed, actually you can have an autonomous flight controller with unlimited navi waypoints and scripted python actions with less than 100 usd. ( http://www.rctimer.com/index.php?gOo=go ... oductname= )

The future of multiwii consist more in relations to its members than with what it does and i think right now we need Alex active involvement. That will guarantee that Multiwii is a continuing success story and a starting point for further development.

kataventos · Post by **kataventos** » Thu Nov 22, 2012 7:51 pm

dramida wrote:And one other fact:
The future of multiwii consist more in relations to its members than with what it does and i think right now we need Alex active involvement. That will guarantee that Multiwii is a continuing success story and a starting point for further development.

+1

kataventos · Post by **kataventos** » Thu Nov 22, 2012 7:55 pm

This dev I used (r1240) is one of the last, with the altitude coded by Mahowick, excellent coder/incredible job.

I´m working on Rushduino OSD, and in this test I made a close to ground (5m Alt Max) PH for +- 5 minutes to test behavior of MWC and to see if after the flight the ground would still be = to zero

This was what I experienced, pretty amazing.

(Video was removed)

scrat · Post by **scrat** » Fri Nov 23, 2012 8:05 am

vpb wrote:so all "sad" people here can't live without alt-hold ? and MultiWii is just that? It's improved (thanks to Mahowik) and will be improved again by someone later, there're good coders are flying multiwii out there. Alt-hold is acceptable now?

I see so many interesting features outside this topic, many nice & kind developers, please help they test & improve, instead of waiting, arguing, asking for more here.

Hi vpb: could you be so kind and share your ALT PID's please. I'm using since yesterday r1275 and I get strange resulst with ALT Hold. Thx. In r1177 it was better.

vpb · Post by **vpb** » Fri Nov 23, 2012 1:03 pm

you can try 5-6 0.20 0.30-0.50