KV FPV

[kataventos]

Hi to all,

started this topic to share my FPV flights all over with my Spider.
Some are edited like this one but, no stab software and stuff

Thanks for watching, have fun and fly safe.

Cheers,
KV

[copterrichie]

Awesome, it would be nice if there was a sub-forum for FPV: viewtopic.php?f=16&t=3392

[kataventos]

Yep, it would be nice a sub forum for this matter!
One of the things I like most on this forum is the organization, most of the times the user is responsible for messing with it. I see that happens a lot on (software development).
Anyway, this topic here was created just to share the fun part!

[Andy7]

Wow! Now that's what it's all about.

[kataventos]

Thanks Andy I will keep them comming

You too have fun and fly safe.

[kataventos]

Some still have the idea that Multiwii does not hold tight when they want to go "Pro" on AP/AV!? This video is nothing but my (fun) way to explain how tight it can be ...
I don´t use gimbal or any kind of stab on it, is what it is.

But now I am close to build a brushless Gimbal, it can stab with an accurate precision even a badly tuned drone. But first of all I consider much more important even before PID´s to calibrate motors and propellers so we can make the job easier to both FC and Gimbal... The best example (I know) using Multiwii is Dr. Tom´s work.

Have fun and fly safe,
KV

[subaru4wd]

Great video and spectacular results.

Do you have any build info? Curious where you got that frame.

[kataventos]

Do you have any build info? Curious where you got that frame.

Thanks subaru4wd, sure I can manage to post info about my build and frame as soon as I get my Webpage finished, that way I only need to write it all in one place but, do not focus on those particular points
You can also get the same results on your actual frame... That is what I am trying to show to all Multiwii user´s with doubts, it is my main goal with this video.
Of course that the frame is important but for that you have tons of examples! there are many good choices out there this days, it only depends on your flight type/wish/main objective.

My frame is a Mix between a good FPV frame and a semi pro for AP/AV. It is a Spider Quad as you can see on the picture. The frame is originally sold with already good capabilities for both but, I have made some changes in order to obtain my needs and feel (as we all do)

@All
The most important here is to understand exactly the hardware/software and all the inevitable changes we make on both to get to the point.

Multiwii in my point of view is the most universal software in the world (for the propose), this kind of universal capability brings also some issues. Among the big "issue" of keeping compatibility with enormous variety of available controllers (this does not happen on other systems) I will focus just two points. The first one is the complexity on having what other software user´s call "intuitive" and objective tuning interface (help me please I am so confuse), and second the easiest way to have optimal fast results. Well I am afraid to say that this will never be possible so, in this case we have two options:

1- really take some time to understand primary concepts of it in order to tune accordingly and have an awesome machine;
2- spend big money to get (good) results quick and have a "limited" machine.

The first one will give us knowledge and pride, the second one will consume our money and limit future choices/options.

(Like I wrote on another forum on my country)
Example/question: Windows or Linux ?

The only big issue on Multiwii is to be hard to use... that´s fine with me, no pain no gain

[subaru4wd]

I understand. I thought about putting a build for my FPV quad on my website, but find myself spending my free time flying I too fpv with a spider quad, much like yours but uses DJI style arms. I want to ditch them and find a frame like yours with square arms. I'd like to know what motors & props you are using. I wanted to copy your PID settings but the OSD screen shows PID as 69, 45 & 60? Would you mind posting a screen shot of your PID settings in WinGUI?

[kataventos]

Sure, the OSD does not use (.) neither the zeros so, you will figure looking at the GUI Pic.

My motors are the EMP 1120kv, props are 100% carbon 10" x 4.5
To copy the PID´s will probably not help but I truly hope it get you close. Even if your copter was exactly the same with the same arms and measures, most certainly would be necessary a slightly different PID´s at the end. The (all up weight) and inclusive weight distribution are equally important, etc... There are not two exactly equal machines... I see it like a DNA

[subaru4wd]

Thank you. I agree everybodies PID settings will differ, but I just wanted to compare my settings to yours to see where I was at. I am mainly trying to get position hold to work, however anytime I flip the position hold switch, my quad darts off into a random direction. It did the same with your PID #'s so I guess its not that...

[copterrichie]

@Subaru4wd, I have not done any Position holding PID Tuning however, I was wondering do you believe it would be possible to devise some ground test to get the settings within the ball park before aerial testing? Just curious.

[subaru4wd]

Not sure how to test position hold on the ground?

[copterrichie]

Not sure how to test position hold on the ground?

Just thinking out loud here, would it be possible to connect the copter via bluetooth and watch the direction pointer while moving the copter armed but props not spinning, lets say within a 6 foot radius to see what happens?

[kataventos]

Jig moved to RCG : http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1901604

Thanks,
-KV

[subaru4wd]

BRILLIANT!! I would be interested in one of those. How about one for 1.3ghz?

[kataventos]

BRILLIANT!! I would be interested in one of those. How about one for 1.3ghz?

Thanks Subaru4wd,


I´m very glad that you found some interest on my work!
Of course, I can make it for even a precise frequency, no problem with that!
Just need you to answer some questions like what kind of wire in mm you use and the exact frequency.

This Jig you see above is sent with welding wire 0.8mm (more then enough for a pair of antennas).
This wire is the one I use and already range tested with awesome results (1.5km with good picture). I should also say that my transmitter is 200mw.

For an 1.3Ghz antenna I should advice you at least 1mm welding wire but... You tell me which one are you using already... !?

Cheers,
KV

[subaru4wd]

1280mhz is the frequency im using. The wire I have to use is 0.8mm welding wire.

[kataventos]

OK perfect, no problem! will send you PM.

[kataventos]

Deleted. Link for the Jig above.

-KV

[vpb]

Hi Kata, can you pm me the info for 1280mhz plate too? I use 1.2mm wire. It takes me 2-3 hours for making a couple by hand

[kataventos]

Hi VPB,

thanks, I am going to post the 1280Mhz Jig here during this weekend! I must say that I had good time designing it because it is as functional as the 5.8Ghz and just a bit bigger...

Cheers,
-KV

[kataventos]

Moved to RCG.

[msev]

kataventos could you post the 3d model of the 5.8ghz jig? In which software did you draw it?

[vpb]

He he, brilliant design Kata! Still waiting for your reply

[kataventos]

kataventos could you post the 3d model of the 5.8ghz jig? In which software did you draw it?

Hi,

why do you need a 3d model?
I can send you the real thing, you can use it to make your antennas forever...


-KV

[kataventos]

He he, brilliant design Kata! Still waiting for your reply

Just replyed to it, thanks.

-KV

[vpb]

Hi,

why do you need a 3d model?
I can send you the real thing, you can use it to make your antennas forever...


-KV

omg Kata, you mis-understood my pm , oh my pm is misunderstanding...

[kataventos]

Hi VPB,

all OK my friend, if you need something you know how to reach me, thank you for your interest order and kindness.

-KV

[kataventos]

Information about the Jig is here : http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1901604
I will only use this thread on RCG for it.

Thanks.
Cheers,
-KV

[kataventos]

Hi,

this the first video with the new gimbal. Not easy to tune but I almost found the correct spot. I am using the open source code to it and I also think that it can be a lot better in the future.
I say this because sometimes I see that Z axis have some influence on roll. I was able to minimize the effect but work needs to be done on that code...

Anyway, hope you enjoy the short story

Cheers,
-KV

[e_lm_70]

Are you flying a 'stock' MultiWii 2.2 or you did modify the code for improve stability n gps-hold mode?

Also ... what difference make angle from horizon in gps-hold mode ?

[RCvertt]

Spider_1.jpg

Hi to all,

started this topic to share my FPV flights all over with my Spider.
Some are edited like this one but, no stab software and stuff

Thanks for watching, have fun and fly safe.

Cheers,
KV...

Hi, very good job. So how did you achieve this?

[kataventos]

Are you flying a 'stock' MultiWii 2.2 or you did modify the code for improve stability n gps-hold mode?

Also ... what difference make angle from horizon in gps-hold mode ?

Hi and sorry for the late reply, I´ve been very busy and trying to relax at same time

- Yep, stock multiwii 2.2 on this Multirotor, just some mods but nothing to do with GPS, it works just fine with the awesome job that have been done so far. The only thing that need to be in perfect "shape" is your "meditation" on PID adjustment... believe me "- omega rocks!" like a friend of mine said after some meditation

-Between Horizon and angle the difference is that in Horizon you have Acro mode until you release the sticks to "center" then it will self level like in Angle. To be honest never tried Horizon... or I am in Acro or in Angle... I would recommend you to use Angle with GPS Hold or Return Home, you can also use the config.h in order to change your position in Hold mode for example.


-KV

[kataventos]

Hi, very good job. So how did you achieve this?

Thanks well... to be honest I achieved this by having fun and of course some dedication to the cause, nothing more...

-KV

[kataventos]

And another short story called "Places"...

Thanks for watching, don´t forget to comment and also the Like button

Have fun and fly safe you all,
-KV

[e_lm_70]

Are you flying a 'stock' MultiWii 2.2 or you did modify the code for improve stability n gps-hold mode?

Also ... what difference make angle from horizon in gps-hold mode ?

Hi and sorry for the late reply, I´ve been very busy and trying to relax at same time

- Yep, stock multiwii 2.2 on this Multirotor, just some mods but nothing to do with GPS, it works just fine with the awesome job that have been done so far. The only thing that need to be in perfect "shape" is your "meditation" on PID adjustment... believe me "- omega rocks!" like a friend of mine said after some meditation

-Between Horizon and angle the difference is that in Horizon you have Acro mode until you release the sticks to "center" then it will self level like in Angle. To be honest never tried Horizon... or I am in Acro or in Angle... I would recommend you to use Angle with GPS Hold or Return Home, you can also use the config.h in order to change your position in Hold mode for example.


-KV

PID tuning is something not trivial .. I will try to copy/get inspired from the PID you show in a capture picture here ...

Did you play with NAV_SLEW_RATE on MultiWii ?

I'm thinking to use lower value here ... maybe I can lose some accuracy under windy situation .. but the on board video quality should be better

I add UAV into my MultiWii 2.2 .. that's why your stable copter in GPS mode is very very interesting for me ... since I want to take onboard video from UAV mode.

Thanks

e_lm_70

[kataventos]

Hey,

Did you play with NAV_SLEW_RATE on MultiWii ?

I'm thinking to use lower value here ... maybe I can lose some accuracy under windy situation .. but the on board video quality should be better

I add UAV into my MultiWii 2.2 .. that's why your stable copter in GPS mode is very very interesting for me ... since I want to take onboard video from UAV mode.

Thanks

e_lm_70

Just a small difference as far as I remember the original values...
I think that the main gains should be perfect before anything, I also continue to search on the "autonomous" flight gains and rates under strong winds.
Yes, I saw your video sometime ago, great keep it up.

Cheers

[Noctaro]

Hey KV, thats impressive! For real! Just need to get rid of that tearing and this is some of the best footage i have seen so far. Keep it up!
Did you use a anti-vibration mount on the gimbal?
Greetz Noc

[kataventos]

Hi Noc,

thanks for your kind words but I must disagree, in fact the first video of this page called "Kurtas_A Cebola" was filmed after the second one on this page "Kurtas_Lugares" and in fact my spider with actual setup reached the maximum tuning point
I say this because this frame have hundreds of hours in the air, and because I like my stuff not only well tuned, but also with every thing in it´s place... I now find it hard to get much better than that because of the weight with all the new gear on it versus motors/power, flight time, props etc etc... so, in the past month I took exhaustive lessons from a friend that is an architect (Pro with Autocad) so finally I could start to put all my stupid ideas on paper and just got them finished in Autocad and ready to start cutting yesterday

I wanted to gather a small compact frame exploring the Y6 concept designed for both APAV and FPV with lots of power and flight time. As you can see on the pic it was designed from scratch taking in account angle simulation from both HD19 and Gopro wide angles, they´re weight versus most used FPV gear, batteries etc...

Let´s see what happens, I think I will receive CNC material (plates, etc) to start cutting this week the brushless gimbal and it´s frame adaptation were also designed from scratch and counts with an original and new concept of "rigid suspension and vibration´s dampening" ... I just hope that the final product works exactly as I imagined it will post about it here and on RCG as soon as all is working fine and tuned.

For the record, I call it: KVY6_V1



Note: Cameras simulation angles are exactly where the cameras will be... no way to get props on both screen´s even in hard turns

Cheers,
-KV

[tovrin]

love it KV! cant wait to see it in action! always appreciate your videos!

[kataventos]

Hey Tovrin,

thank you man, I just hope to never disappoint you.
We have really awesome footage out there on youtube that make your´s and other friends comments an honor for me to receive them.

Will continue to research in order to get better in future.

Cheers and don´t forget to fly safe,
-KV

PS: very glad that you liked my frame, I hope to get it build very soon

[kataventos]

Hi,

still waiting for the motors for the Y6, also the design is being updated to round 12" carbon arms and in size in order to lift bigger cameras then Gopro, but the brushless gimbal will be the same for now because the GoPro is the only AV camera I own at this moment.

Meantime because the plates will arrive tomorrow from Germany (I hope ) I decided to dismantle my spider and design an Y4 just for fast FPV without the GoPro and related stuff...

My frames are being designed for a specific hardware which is the hardware I use and advice (also massively used by people around the world) for it reliability and low price offering pretty awesome results. For example the camera support was designed for the Boscam Explorer HD19 without any gimbal, it counts however with a soft mount for vibration´s dampening. I found this camera very good for both fly and record my flights, quality is far from the GoPro but it behaves pretty impressively under low light conditions, much better then the GoPro.

I will be updating this by cutting/mounting and tuning this one (Y4) prior to the Y6 because I already have all electronics/hardware.

This one will be smaller, faster and lighter because it was designed just for real FPV fun. As the Y6 (on my previous post) it already have a distribution board prepared to use two batteries. Both frames can only be correctly balanced with both batts (one on each side). I simulated AUW and geometry before coming up with the final design/appearance... actually the base of my draws is nothing but this:

1-Real application ((e.g) FPV or APAV or simply LOS Acro fun);
2-Desired type of flight;
3-Desired FC/electronic parts ((e.g) with or without GPS, telemetry UART radio, OSD, brushless gimbal/controller etc)

Now with this I already have indicators of parts and weight, then I think about the batteries and prop size according my ESC´s and motors, which make jump for the frame size part.
I can now find the geometry by simulating:

a) Desired props size (related to what is explained and found above);
b) The arms angle (just exploring the Y concept for now);
c) Camera wide view angle simulation (avoiding (a) );

Then I put my FC board on the geometric center. Geometric center is not the same as Gravity Center... I see people messing with this two completely different points
So... in few words/bottom line, I start drawing a frame by drawing four circles then I simulate weight and the final appearance only comes in the very end... just because I really design them to fly (which is in fact the only thing missing at this time


Because I mostly use the same electronics on all my "Multirotor Gadjets" both these frames also have dedicated room for the Crius GPS with the AIOPRO as FC board etc, and this one will be equipped with the newest version of the Minim OSD by JDrones.

For the record, I call it KVY4_v1





In case I missed something important here please point me, I will be very glad to learn more everyday.

Edit: Added real pic to compare with CAD design.

Cheers,
-KV

[teslahed]

Here are a couple of flights taken from my FPV hexacopter running multwii 2.2 and the TeamKV MinimOSD;

http://youtu.be/v0Zel82lPvQ

http://youtu.be/-zNnZEX0NZw

[scrat]

Here are a couple of flights taken from my FPV hexacopter running multwii 2.2 and the TeamKV MinimOSD;

http://youtu.be/v0Zel82lPvQ

http://youtu.be/-zNnZEX0NZw

I see on the picture that you have OrnageRx LRS. How far can you go with that monopole antenna? And what kind of antenna you have on your tx?

[teslahed]

Here is a very long and very boring video;

http://youtu.be/nBBUnoHKWvE

Edit - save yourself time and click here to get to the far point (600 meters long the ground on this video);
http://youtu.be/nBBUnoHKWvE?t=4m40s
RSSI voltage drops to 1.3 volts from 2.74 when i have the transmitter and receiver next to each other - suggesting i could go quite a lot further still, especially if up in the air.

I get a good signal at over 1km along the ground, if there are no houses in between, and a usable signal even when i am stood under a concrete bridge. I suspect i would run out of mAh before i ran out of range on the radio with this setup.

I have a monpole, a dipole and a V antenna which i have tested on the transmitter. I am using the homemade dipole at the moment because it seems to give good results and is a convenient shape.

For the price i am very happy with the system - they have just released version 3.2 of the code and development is ongoing. I even put one of the long range receivers on my mini quadcopter, just because it supports PPM and works so well - i clearly don't need the range for this;



http://www.goodluckbuy.com/45mm-433mhz- ... pcs-1.html

the shortened coiled up antenna i use on the mini probably isn't anywhere near as good for long range stuff as the one on the hex, but it really doesn't need to be - i barely go more than 200meters with this thing;

http://youtu.be/VUoQG1fcKh0

[teslahed]

Now with this I already have indicators of parts and weight, then I think about the batteries and prop size according my ESC´s and motors, which make jump for the frame size part.
I can now find the geometry by simulating:

a) Desired props size (related to what is explained and found above);
b) The arms angle (just exploring the Y concept for now);
c) Camera wide view angle simulation (avoiding (a) );

Then I put my FC board on the geometric center. Geometric center is not the same as Gravity Center... I see people messing with this two completely different points
So... in few words/bottom line, I start drawing a frame by drawing four circles then I simulate weight and the final appearance only comes in the very end... just because I really design them to fly (which is in fact the only thing missing at this time

That looks like a very nice design.

I am currently working on a new FPV quad of my own, possibly a little simper;





So far it has only flown line of sight though - i am still in the process of installing the video gear;

http://youtu.be/jyM1MersesY

I have used a similar design philosophy to yourself. I like the idea of the dead cat layout because it gives clear visibility at the front and also helps with line of sight orientation, but i don't like the idea of a spider / dead cat style frame geometery that deviates from the square quadcopter shape and flying style. So i started by drawing a square, placing the 4 motors in each corner, then working backwards from there. It looks like the angles are quite odd but as far as the motors, props and flight controller are concerned it's just a quadcopter.

I'll be putting a minimOSD with the team kv osd firmware on it, of course

[kataventos]

Hey Teslahead,

they are awesome, already saw the videos and you are the aerobatic type of pilot... something that I do not fly much, only with my old gadget´s never on a demonstration of new piece of hardware...

I am alreay testing the KVY4_v1 (yes... it is a wild beast)
Here are some pictures of the final stuff already flying as we like them to... videos, as soon as I have some time and stable weather



Morning FPV...


Late afternoon testing autonomous flights...



Cheers,
-KV

[scrat]

I see you have 5db amtemma on your Tx. Are you using FrSky and did this antenna increased your range?

[kataventos]

I see you have 5db amtemma on your Tx. Are you using FrSky and did this antenna increased your range?

Hi Scrat,

sorry for he late reply, lot´s of projects and hard work these days.

I would like to answer your question by making a full description with differences between both antennas, but in truth I can only say that my range is near 2.5km with the 5db (on the pic) because I never used the original one... Note that this range is possible using double dipole on the RX and not the "wires" you see on the pic with this new under testing gadget (RX original).

Hope this help you somehow.

Cheers,
-KV