Why development has stopped?

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e_lm_70
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Re: Why development has stopped?

Post by e_lm_70 »

copterrichie wrote:
e_lm_70 wrote:About auto-tuning
The most important factor is the ESC delay .. the RPM change from the PWM signal change.
How do you plan to put this in the GUI ?


What are the maximum delays of all the ESC brands used? Seems to me, this information does not vary very much from a normal distribution curve and we can use the mean as a baseline.


Try to use the same PID, keeping the same copter, but using F20A original firmware or after simonK reflash.

I know for experience that same copter but different ESC or different firmware make a big difference in the PID.

I don't think there is any available information about delay and distributions of delay for ESC ... very few people did put on a scope the ESC monitoring the PWM in and the Motor out signals.

The most easy thing is to measure the delay from the control board ... also it can measure the power/weight ration too .. since the control board can know which PWM signal level is needed for rise a arm to 30deg from a level, using only 1 motor at time.

copterrichie
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Re: Why development has stopped?

Post by copterrichie »

I simply purposed the idea, we can create a thread to work out the detail or design specifications.

e_lm_70
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Re: Why development has stopped?

Post by e_lm_70 »

copterrichie wrote:I simply purposed the idea, we can create a thread to work out the detail or design specifications.


Actually , there is already one thread open about auto-tuning .. and yes ... this discussion deserve more attention but here on this thread is not the right place.

brewski
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Re: Why development has stopped?

Post by brewski »

e_lm_70 wrote:
brewski wrote:+1 & video coming. Std PID & 1KG mass seems perfect fit!


Looking forward for your video ;)


Hi e_lm_70,

Here is link to Vimeo video I took this morning
http://vimeo.com/100171107 & http://vimeo.com/100177348#t=0s

I tried to embed Vimeo on post using Vimeo tag but it didn't work. The link to Vimeo site does though.
Conditions were light 5-8km/hr breeze . Pos Hold & Alt Hold enabled. As you can see quad holds within approx. 1m vertical & 1.5 m horizontal correcting instantly to wind gusts. As I mentioned in previous email I built this X525 from kit using supplied hardware, motors, ESCs but changed FC to Crius AIOP V2.
After several 'flyaways' I disabled the onboard Mag IC & installed 12C Mag board on carbon fibre rod in front of quad. Firmware is MW 2.3 Navi b7 with stock PIDs.
Cheers..Bruce

Airedrew
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Re: Why development has stopped?

Post by Airedrew »

Love the videos...proof is in the puding :)

e_lm_70
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Re: Why development has stopped?

Post by e_lm_70 »

brewski wrote:
e_lm_70 wrote:
brewski wrote:+1 & video coming. Std PID & 1KG mass seems perfect fit!


Looking forward for your video ;)


Hi e_lm_70,

Here is link to Vimeo video I took this morning
http://vimeo.com/100171107 & http://vimeo.com/100177348#t=0s

I tried to embed Vimeo on post using Vimeo tag but it didn't work. The link to Vimeo site does though.
Conditions were light 5-8km/hr breeze . Pos Hold & Alt Hold enabled. As you can see quad holds within approx. 1m vertical & 1.5 m horizontal correcting instantly to wind gusts. As I mentioned in previous email I built this X525 from kit using supplied hardware, motors, ESCs but changed FC to Crius AIOP V2.
After several 'flyaways' I disabled the onboard Mag IC & installed 12C Mag board on carbon fibre rod in front of quad. Firmware is MW 2.3 Navi b7 with stock PIDs.
Cheers..Bruce


Thanks

Quite short video for get any definitely conclusion
Also my copter if I get the lucky 30 seconds it is looking very good :mrgreen:

I did download and check EOS firmware, and even if in one comment it state that accelerometer data is used, I don't see anything about it in the GPS section ... I see and I don't like the usage of two GPS coordinate for derive the speed, and use this for avoid the GPS lag, it is just adding noise to noise in my book.

It is looking to me all is left to the quality of GPS signal, same as MultiWii 2.3

Ps: Looking also at multiwii open source page, I see there is some work in progress going on ... not much, but still

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fuh
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Why development has stopped?

Post by fuh »

Exactly how you think GPS returns the current velocity ? ;-)

And once again *all personal GPS devices* suffers from induced error, if APM and dji can overcome it I don't see a reason why we can't, it's not hardware fault nor will it improve in the future.

o_lampe
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Re: Why development has stopped?

Post by o_lampe »

my comment about GPS- and altHold problems:
It seems to me that there are problems deeper in the code that reflect on or even multiply issues with GPS implementation.
There had been an old discussion about "wrong" PID implementation.
/******************************** PID Controller *********************************/
/* choose one of the alternate PID control algorithms
* 1 = evolved oldschool algorithm (similar to v2.2)
* 2 = new experimental algorithm from Alex Khoroshko - unsupported - viewtopic.php?f=8&t=3671&start=10#p37387
* */

I don't know, how much truth lies within this, but it seems worth rethinking the basic structure before trying to find another workaround to tweak GPS and baro stuff.

Failsafe options are another issue in my opinion, they never worked for me.

OT autotuning:
I don't like the idea to just power one motor until the copter reaches 30° angle. ( It would have to balance " on one foot", so to speak )
Better use two adjacent motors and let the copter rest on the remaining two feet. But even this approach would only work for a quad with four legs. A hex with four legs is a different story, that would have to be dealt with.

Rust
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Re: Why development has stopped?

Post by Rust »

brewski wrote:
e_lm_70 wrote:
brewski wrote:+1 & video coming. Std PID & 1KG mass seems perfect fit!


Looking forward for your video ;)


Hi e_lm_70,

Here is link to Vimeo video I took this morning
http://vimeo.com/100171107 & http://vimeo.com/100177348#t=0s

I tried to embed Vimeo on post using Vimeo tag but it didn't work. The link to Vimeo site does though.
Conditions were light 5-8km/hr breeze . Pos Hold & Alt Hold enabled. As you can see quad holds within approx. 1m vertical & 1.5 m horizontal correcting instantly to wind gusts. As I mentioned in previous email I built this X525 from kit using supplied hardware, motors, ESCs but changed FC to Crius AIOP V2.
After several 'flyaways' I disabled the onboard Mag IC & installed 12C Mag board on carbon fibre rod in front of quad. Firmware is MW 2.3 Navi b7 with stock PIDs.
Cheers..Bruce


I second that this is the usual performance of multiwii in calm weather. The sphere gets bigger increasing the wind. It's not perfect, but usable.
With some alt pid tuning and low vibrations to the fc, you can also wander around at relatively high speed on Altitude Hold without too much (1.5m) altitude deviation (even with the BMP085). Again, not perfect, but not that bad either.
I've always put more weight on decent manual mode performance than the auto pilot modes. At the end this is where one spends most of the time. I don't know why so many people don't want to just learn to pilot the thing. Probably that's the reason I don't care as much if pos hold drifts few meters.

e_lm_70
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Re: Why development has stopped?

Post by e_lm_70 »

Rust wrote:
I second that this is the usual performance of multiwii in calm weather. The sphere gets bigger increasing the wind. It's not perfect, but usable.
With some alt pid tuning and low vibrations to the fc, you can also wander around at relatively high speed on Altitude Hold without too much (1.5m) altitude deviation (even with the BMP085). Again, not perfect, but not that bad either.
I've always put more weight on decent manual mode performance than the auto pilot modes. At the end this is where one spends most of the time. I don't know why so many people don't want to just learn to pilot the thing. Probably that's the reason I don't care as much if pos hold drifts few meters.


I agree with you ... that a perfect Position Hold is not so useful .. that's why also for me the limit of the MultiWii here are fine.

RTH is what can save the copter in case of lost orientation.

Navigation is what can be used for "lazy" pilot, or for cheap/smart UAV pioneers

ALT hold works very very fine with 5611 on MultiWii ... 085 is old ... BMP180 should be already much better ... still anybody serious will use 5611 baro ... ALT hold is good for lazy aerial video people ... only 1 stick to take care

Yes, sub optimal position hold does not really effect anybody ... unless allow people to criticize multiwii, since APM and DJI can do this better.

Still for me, more then be more accurate, I like to have position hold more reliable ... what does APM make everything less reliable. DJI reliability issue are well know, possible even over stated as well.

Rust
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Re: Why development has stopped?

Post by Rust »

All the best pilots I've seen fly multiwii/naze32. If that's not enough of a reason to keep development, I don't know what could be.
EOSBandi does a great job in the direction of automated flight. If that's not development, what is?
There are cheap 32bit processors in the market that allow for hardware development as well (timecop's naze series).

Rust
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Re: Why development has stopped?

Post by Rust »

And of course how did I forget the awesome Android App - Multiwii EZGUI by ezio! Brilliant!

brewski
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Re: Why development has stopped?

Post by brewski »

e_lm_70 wrote:
Rust wrote:
I second that this is the usual performance of multiwii in calm weather. The sphere gets bigger increasing the wind. It's not perfect, but usable.
With some alt pid tuning and low vibrations to the fc, you can also wander around at relatively high speed on Altitude Hold without too much (1.5m) altitude deviation (even with the BMP085). Again, not perfect, but not that bad either.
I've always put more weight on decent manual mode performance than the auto pilot modes. At the end this is where one spends most of the time. I don't know why so many people don't want to just learn to pilot the thing. Probably that's the reason I don't care as much if pos hold drifts few meters.


I agree with you ... that a perfect Position Hold is not so useful .. that's why also for me the limit of the MultiWii here are fine.

RTH is what can save the copter in case of lost orientation.

Navigation is what can be used for "lazy" pilot, or for cheap/smart UAV pioneers

ALT hold works very very fine with 5611 on MultiWii ... 085 is old ... BMP180 should be already much better ... still anybody serious will use 5611 baro ... ALT hold is good for lazy aerial video people ... only 1 stick to take care

Yes, sub optimal position hold does not really effect anybody ... unless allow people to criticize multiwii, since APM and DJI can do this better.

Still for me, more then be more accurate, I like to have position hold more reliable ... what does APM make everything less reliable. DJI reliability issue are well know, possible even over stated as well.


Not me and many others who just want a good stable video platform or for FPV. Doing flips & loops etc is best done with cheap micro quads & much safer. With a 1KG+ multicopter it is clumsy & even dangerous in wrong area.
I have a Mobius coming soon & can't wait to take some videos of the places we travel to from a different perspective. Next step will be FPV with simultaneous recording.
DJI & other commercial multicopter manufacturers have already captured this rapidly growing market. I spoke to a guy at local park who was flying a nice hex the other day & asked what brand & price. Make was Ozcopter & he paid $5K+ custom built, but he was going Commercial so probably one on the CAA accepted list. Crazy thing is flight controller was just a $250 Nasa & the rest you could buy from HK for less than $500!

brewski
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Re: Why development has stopped?

Post by brewski »

Rust wrote:And of course how did I forget the awesome Android App - Multiwii EZGUI by ezio! Brilliant!

+1

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ezio
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Re: Why development has stopped?

Post by ezio »

brewski wrote:
Rust wrote:And of course how did I forget the awesome Android App - Multiwii EZGUI by ezio! Brilliant!

+1

Thanks guys.

timecop
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Re: Why development has stopped?

Post by timecop »

brewski wrote:Crazy thing is flight controller was just a $250 Nasa & the rest you could buy from HK for less than $500!


A fool and his money are soon parted.
Never been more true with "RTF" segment.

copterrichie
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Re: Why development has stopped?

Post by copterrichie »

timecop wrote:
A fool and his money are soon parted.
Never been more true with "RTF" segment.


+1 and another +1

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ezio
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Re: Why development has stopped?

Post by ezio »

I think we have to spend some time and finally make a documentation. So the people who wants to use the multiwii doesn't have to spend hours on reading the forums etc.
Because of lack of the documentation people are just scared and go to other flight controllers, like this guy https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s8jWZ254wUg

just my 2 cents

timecop
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Re: Why development has stopped?

Post by timecop »

Sorry, nothing from alishanmao is legit. He just goes to whoever pays him more / gives him more free stuff.

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ezio
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Re: Why development has stopped?

Post by ezio »

timecop wrote:Sorry, nothing from alishanmao is legit. He just goes to whoever pays him more / gives him more free stuff.

Yes I know that.I just use video of alishanmao as an example of the existing problem.

Rust
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Re: Why development has stopped?

Post by Rust »

ezio wrote:I think we have to spend some time and finally make a documentation. So the people who wants to use the multiwii doesn't have to spend hours on reading the forums etc.
Because of lack of the documentation people are just scared and go to other flight controllers, like this guy https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s8jWZ254wUg

just my 2 cents


Looks like a serious task. I can take a part of the team. The platform deserves it.

o_lampe
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Re: Why development has stopped?

Post by o_lampe »

ezio wrote:I think we have to spend some time and finally make a documentation. So the people who wants to use the multiwii doesn't have to spend hours on reading the forums etc.
Because of lack of the documentation people are just scared and go to other flight controllers, like this guy https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s8jWZ254wUg

just my 2 cents


+1
After 1 year of using MW I still get a headache, when I have to change settings in config.h.

copterrichie
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Re: Why development has stopped?

Post by copterrichie »

There has be some serious attempts in the past to create a Wiki and documentation for the MWC, In my opinion, the issue is accessibility and who has the rights to make updates. I would suggest a system where anyone can make an entree but the Admin would have the final approval.

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ezio
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Re: Why development has stopped?

Post by ezio »

Maybe we can use google docs for this. It worked quite well for me.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1_CT ... hMKqUA/pub

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fuh
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Why development has stopped?

Post by fuh »

But why ?! GitHub has it all..

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Hamburger
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Re: Why development has stopped?

Post by Hamburger »

but why? the wiki is already there. Much more promising to base additional work on what is already available than start from scratch. http://www.multiwii.com/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page

copterrichie
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Re: Why development has stopped?

Post by copterrichie »

Hamburger wrote:but why? the wiki is already there. Much more promising to base additional work on what is already available than start from scratch. http://www.multiwii.com/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page


There is STILL no direct link on the main www.multiww.com page to the wiki. Asked for that months ago.

copterrichie
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Re: Why development has stopped?

Post by copterrichie »

There is also an unmaintained wiki here: https://code.google.com/p/multiwii/w/list

timecop
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Re: Why development has stopped?

Post by timecop »

Hamburger wrote:but why? the wiki is already there. Much more promising to base additional work on what is already available than start from scratch. http://www.multiwii.com/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page


multiwii.com forums and wiki are infuriatingly slow, and nearly unusable during dreamhost busy times (which is almost all the time). I dunno about you, but few hours per day I only get "connection timed out" on the forums, or sometime it goes to a multiwii 404 page when trying to hit a forum post.

At least github wiki is heaps faster (and easier to edit)

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ezio
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Re: Why development has stopped?

Post by ezio »

So, what can we do to make documentation better and more friendly for less tech savvy people ?
Any specific ideas how it can be realized ?
I receive dozens of emails where people are asking about simple things and I'm just tired to answer the same questions every time.

current wiki (http://www.multiwii.com/wiki/index.php?title=Special:AllPages) is kinda OK. Maybe if more people have access and can edit it, it can be more compete and up to date.

Bart

brewski
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Re: Why development has stopped?

Post by brewski »

The Wiki certainly needs some padding out for new users to be of any benefit. I just clicked on Crius AIOP & all it gives is bicopter Config.h mod.
Headfree just states Headlock not how to use it or what sensors are required to be enabled.

Alexinparis
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Re: Why development has stopped?

Post by Alexinparis »

copterrichie wrote:
Hamburger wrote:but why? the wiki is already there. Much more promising to base additional work on what is already available than start from scratch. http://www.multiwii.com/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page


There is STILL no direct link on the main http://www.multiww.com page to the wiki. Asked for that months ago.


ok, now, nobody can ignore the wiki ;)

It's on the first page in Arduino IDE when you open the multiwii sketch.
+ I've just moved the FAQ in the wiki:
http://www.multiwii.com/faq
with a link to the wiki
(I know the old FAQ is very deprecated, but it's just to set up things for the moment)

So, what can we do to make documentation better and more friendly for less tech savvy people ?
Any specific ideas how it can be realized ?
I receive dozens of emails where people are asking about simple things and I'm just tired to answer the same questions every time.

current wiki (http://www.multiwii.com/wiki/index.php? ... l:AllPages) is kinda OK. Maybe if more people have access and can edit it, it can be more compete and up to date.

Writing a proper doc is a huge task and not the most pleasant one (at least for me)
So the best way we found in the past was to set a wiki on the site, and make it open.
Then came many spams, so it was closed to free registration
But each volunteer is still welcome to feed it and make it stronger.
Just pm me for this, the is really no barrier to contribute on the wiki

Frank
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Re: Why development has stopped?

Post by Frank »

Ok, good to hear you are taking some actions ;)
But nevertheless the performance & user-friendliness isnt the best anymore.
No hope that one of the maintainers might freshen the environment (as to often called move to github and its surrounding features ) ??

jim lee
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Re: Why development has stopped?

Post by jim lee »

Sometimes its a good idea to take what you've learned and start over fresh? I do it all the time and really, it does work well for cleaning things up and getting back on track.

That's what I'm doing now. I have a pretty good idea what I want as an end product. With this in mind I've just took a blank sheet and, with a look now and then at the multiWii code, started to roll my own. So far I have RC receiver, servos and the I2C gyro all working. Now that I have the first I2C chip running, I can use that to figure out the others. I still need to figure out the flight model, but I guess it'll come in time.

Anyone want to share?

-jim lee

kalle123
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Re: Why development has stopped?

Post by kalle123 »

ezio wrote:I think we have to spend some time and finally make a documentation. So the people who wants to use the multiwii doesn't have to spend hours on reading the forums etc.
Because of lack of the documentation people are just scared and go to other flight controllers, like this guy https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s8jWZ254wUg

just my 2 cents


I am watching that situation now for a while and at the moment we do have a similar situation with opentx Taranis rc. In my opinion ;)

There is a real hype going on for instance on rcgroups http://www.rcgroups.com/radios-135/ . A lot of posting, people are asking same questions over and over again. Development is fast and discussion take place mainly here http://openrcforums.com/forum/index.php

I do see a lot of parallels between multiwii and opentx.

To bundle now the knowledge, http://open-txu.org/ was created to have information/documentation on one place.

Please have a look.

br KH

KA8
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Re: Why development has stopped?

Post by KA8 »

ezio wrote:I'm curious why there is no progress in the code for some time now?
Where are the smart people who were here before?

Bart

was for a long time no longer here.
Multiwii is OK, simple but good.
the development should be diversified.
A lot of code were taken from APM such as GPS and other things. Multiwii is miles away from apm. therefore the people have switched to other systems.
I see in MultiWii nothing new,
why?

Rust
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Re: Why development has stopped?

Post by Rust »

In manual modes (auto level and acro/rate) actually Multiwii is miles ahead of APM. The control is more direct, precise and stable. After EODBandi's last work, the GPS implementation works really well and has a lot of new options.
Except of position hold (loiter) accuracy what is APM ahead?

timecop
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Re: Why development has stopped?

Post by timecop »

Rust wrote:what is APM ahead?


I would imagine, in the part, where a user isn't required to edit a mile-long config.h file

Wipo
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Re: Why development has stopped?

Post by Wipo »

Half year ago I allready stated that MultiWii should invest more in building a bigger community.
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=4558&hilit=repository

This can only be done by making website/wiki much better and user friendly and adding other value to the website. So that you have a social looking/feeling website and not just some flat EOL looking project page. My example on added value was a multirotor repository see: www.multiwii.be

poeple/users in this community can help building up bigger and better documentation or other stuff but the MultiWii Dev team has to allow this kind of cooperation and will have to trust on these members that want to join this cooperation.

If MultiWii Want's to stay alive it will need to do something very fast because this marked is booming, competition is growing and if you don't invest to stay ahead you will be eaten by the competition. MultiWii is allready "multiple" steps behind on others like APM, DIJ,... That's not really a problem because the reasen why currently a lot of users use multiwii is because HK/RCT and other can sell these small multiwii compatible flightcontrollers at 20$ or less. And we should keep MultiWii simple and easy so FCboards can still be sold arround $20 because. At the $100 FCboards there is to much competition and better to find. But we need to make MultiWii much more user friendly and build up a real community. Just check the Diydrones/APM website. The size of there supporting community is just mind blowing.

the-kenny
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Re: Why development has stopped?

Post by the-kenny »

Wipo wrote:one by making website/wiki much better and user friendly and adding other value to the website. So that you have a social looking/feeling website and not just some flat EOL looking project page. My example on added value was a multirotor repository see: http://www.multiwii.be

poeple/users in this community can help building up bigger and better documentation or other stuff but the MultiWii Dev team has to allow this kind of cooperation and will have to trust on these members that want to join this cooperation.


Yes, that's exactly what any project needs. One more confusing website that doesn't add any value and confuses starters.

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ezio
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Re: Why development has stopped?

Post by ezio »

Totally agree.
I said this before too.
So now I think it is time to stop talking and start doing something.

Image

Stop praying do something

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fuh
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Why development has stopped?

Post by fuh »

Like what ?
We can't release 2.3 because we're not not the core team.
We can't add features (I'm sorry posting stuff to a forum is not code control)
We can't edit the wiki because it's read only mode.

So.. what can we do ?

bartwaw
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Re: Why development has stopped?

Post by bartwaw »

Just my 2 cents.
I love Multiwii for the feeling. It's very natural in acro. You don't feel that there is something that still knows better than you how to fly :)
Multiwii is very close to rc helicopters which i was flying for few years.
Tried naza, APM but i love MWII. I'ts simple as it should be, and for few bucks you can build your own small FC :)
I've tried my muscles on this area:
Image

and heres my small build post (only in polish):
http://redexit.pl/diy-multiwii/

This is my bigger acro quad (on 8" propellers)

Image

And smaller one on 5" propellers
Image

And how this small beast fly:

http://youtu.be/XB2c5GmQYfo

BTW, how to attach youtube, i've tried almost everything.


So, keep on progress :) And thank you all for multiwii :)

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ezio
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Re: Why development has stopped?

Post by ezio »

fuh wrote:Like what ?
We can't release 2.3 because we're not not the core team.
We can't add features (I'm sorry posting stuff to a forum is not code control)
We can't edit the wiki because it's read only mode.

So.. what can we do ?

For wiki ask Alex for access.

My previous post was more for core team.

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Hamburger
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Re: Why development has stopped?

Post by Hamburger »

fuh wrote:We can't add features (I'm sorry posting stuff to a forum is not code control)

sorry you do not like it. That is the way we all started.
We can't edit the wiki because it's read only mode.
So.. what can we do ?

If you hd read the comment on wiki main page then you would know why the wiki is read.only and how you can gain write.access.
I question your dedication, sir.

V2.4 will be released when alex declares it ready.

Wipo
Posts: 22
Joined: Mon Jan 20, 2014 9:33 am

Re: Why development has stopped?

Post by Wipo »

the-kenny wrote:
Wipo wrote:one by making website/wiki much better and user friendly and adding other value to the website. So that you have a social looking/feeling website and not just some flat EOL looking project page. My example on added value was a multirotor repository see: http://www.multiwii.be

poeple/users in this community can help building up bigger and better documentation or other stuff but the MultiWii Dev team has to allow this kind of cooperation and will have to trust on these members that want to join this cooperation.


Yes, that's exactly what any project needs. One more confusing website that doesn't add any value and confuses starters.


The-kenny, if you would really understand of what this is about then:
- you would have understand that the goal is not to make seperates website but one better website with added value to the community.
- the website I refer to is just a little project used as an example of some added value that could be included or provided by multiwii.
- and finaly you would not have made this cynical remark

e_lm_70
Posts: 297
Joined: Fri Aug 09, 2013 8:35 pm

Re: Why development has stopped?

Post by e_lm_70 »

bartwaw wrote:Just my 2 cents.
I love Multiwii for the feeling. It's very natural in acro. You don't feel that there is something that still knows better than you how to fly :)
Multiwii is very close to rc helicopters which i was flying for few years.
Tried naza, APM but i love MWII. I'ts simple as it should be, and for few bucks you can build your own small FC :)
I've tried my muscles on this area:

...


So, keep on progress :) And thank you all for multiwii :)


People looking for DIY, capable to hack code, hack HardWare, these people will "love" MultiWii

With few $ people can make their own Control Board with integrated FlySky and FrSky radio, using MultiWii ... just 1 Arduino ProMini + 1 6050 module + a CC2500 or A7104 module ... and really very few soldering needed.

MultiWii is not very user friendly for normal PnP people.

The config.h even if it is very simple for somebody (and very powerful too, since it allow to handle different sensors and customization with very little usage of CPU resources, perfect for ATmega328 chips, or even Atmega168) ... still this is a show stopper for PnP people

And this it is not a question about how well is done the documentation ... for me Config.h is already self explaining, it would be a mistake to add a document to explain how to use it .. all info should be inside config.h comments

So, if you want to get more traction the MultiWii need to take the fix code approach, people should not re-compile multiwii ... all should be auto-config or easy to config via a PC-GUI.

This means ATmega328 will be useable only with a fix set of sensors
For Mega MultiWii board, then sensors could be configurable or auto-detect, similar to BaseFlight (but BaseFlight support less sensors then MultiWii)

The question is : Is the core development team interested to attract the PnP people ? Will they transform their perfect system, hacker friendly to make a system more dummy friendly ?

copterrichie
Posts: 2261
Joined: Sat Feb 19, 2011 8:30 pm

Re: Why development has stopped?

Post by copterrichie »

e_lm_70 wrote:
MultiWii is not very user friendly for normal PnP people.


In my opinion, this MAYBE a blessing in disguise! Taking a look at all of the current news events involving multi-rotor copters, overwhelming they have involved an idiot with PnP.

e_lm_70
Posts: 297
Joined: Fri Aug 09, 2013 8:35 pm

Re: Why development has stopped?

Post by e_lm_70 »

copterrichie wrote:
e_lm_70 wrote:
MultiWii is not very user friendly for normal PnP people.


In my opinion, this MAYBE a blessing in disguise! Taking a look at all of the current news events involving multi-rotor copters, overwhelming they have involved an idiot with PnP.


I can only totally agree with you.

PnP is not only for dummy, but it also makes people dummy ... in the moment that things are hidden under the "magic" of PnP ... people are unaware of what it is going on in the background ... and dummy legends arise as well.

Anyhow ... about PnP ... this is also the normal technology tread of, for get more "popularity" it must be dummy proof , and this means also dummy will use this technology with all the possible side effect.

For me the beauty of MultiWii it is to be "simple" for people that can read code or understand Arduino environment.

Still ... my point of view is not the same of the mass of PnP people ... so for get more people on board, it is also mandatory to open up to "idiots" :ugeek:

It is also make me laugh, to hear that the recent FAA rules is a response of idiots flying DJI Phantoms ... as some fake experts try to bring the blame ... DJI has just open up the technology to the PnP people ... making "thing" more popular did help for lower the prices too ... a benefit for all of us.

Stone-D
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2014 3:52 am

Re: Why development has stopped?

Post by Stone-D »

LOL.

Linux is not very user friendly for normal people. This may be a blessing in disguise! Taking a look at all of the news reports involving malware and viruses, overwhelmingly they have involved an idiot with Windows.


Sound familiar?

e_lm_70 wrote:PnP is not only for dummy, but it also makes people dummy ... in the moment that things are hidden under the "magic" of PnP ... people are unaware of what it is going on in the background ... and dummy legends arise as well.

Anyhow ... about PnP ... this is also the normal technology tread of, for get more "popularity" it must be dummy proof , and this means also dummy will use this technology with all the possible side effect.


'Dummy' is the wrong term, really. RTF/BNF/PNP... these have only been made possible with the rise of LiPo use vs gasoline, more efficient manufacturing and cheaper production costs. This has resulted in a safer (for the user) and cheaper route into the hobby.

However, the majority of people do NOT see this as a hobby. It is a fun thing to mess around with for a while. It's a toy to stick under the tree. It's a cool thing to show people at school. It's a massively easy way to make a quick buck. None of these people have long term ideas about RC. None of them know what the AMA is. They all think the FAA deals with airports and passenger planes and people with hats and cute stewardesses. To them, it's a means to an end and nothing more.

Buy a Phantom and a GoPro. Hell, just a 200QX and a Mobius will do. Hang out near areas with high accident rates, or get lucky and be present at a fire. Sell the footage to news teams for hundreds to thousands of dollars on the spot. Rinse, repeat.


For me the beauty of MultiWii it is to be "simple" for people that can read code or understand Arduino environment.


You can have both. OSX hides the BSD/Unix power under the pretty hood.

Still ... my point of view is not the same of the mass of PnP people ... so for get more people on board, it is also mandatory to open up to "idiots" :ugeek:

It is also make me laugh, to hear that the recent FAA rules is a response of idiots flying DJI Phantoms ... as some fake experts try to bring the blame ... DJI has just open up the technology to the PnP people ... making "thing" more popular did help for lower the prices too ... a benefit for all of us.


For most people, APM/MWII/DJI/NAZE/whatever are just brands, all selling similar products: drones. Yes, I used that word.

And they are. The strongest brand will dictate public perception: currently, DJI. Easy, cheap, newbie friendly... and marketed heavily towards amateur photographers. Ie, everyone and their mom.

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