What makes Naza 'better' than Multiwii

[brm]

i did use default pid settings and it worked for me.
it is dependent on the propper view of the data.

a simple atmel atmel just can't do that.

[Peter]

I never needed to change the default pid settings, I only had to set the low pass filter to 42hz or something on some frames. For example the dji flamewheel clone.

But I do tune the pids for acro flying. Most of the time higher P for flashed escs and somewhat higher I for rapid movements. Higher rc rate and lower expo. Finally 0.3 TPA for fast forward flight.

[alexia]

as soon as multiwii will have a good baro mode like naza,it will be the end for dji

[alll]

baro PID tuning ...

[Deet]

as soon as multiwii will have a good baro mode like naza,it will be the end for dji

It wont be

The reason I am told people buy DJI is the simple computer interface

Until MW can do firmware updates from a GUI, including all the hardware settings, it will never kill off DJI. Text base code is what stops most guys I know buying MW

[copterrichie]

It's Rabbit season.

[Cralis]

To be honest, I'd say, with the people having problems that I see on the forums, maybe 20% have issues with the firmware update process... the rest battle with PID setting and understanding. I'd still say it comes down to that.

[copterrichie]

Again, it all depends upon the community questioned: Which is better: http://diydrones.com/profiles/blogs/meg ... ith-an-oct

[felixrising]

All of those features, PH, RTL, Altitude Hold and Autoland are available on MultiWii too, using 'Altitude Hold/Advanced Failsafe solutions by NHA' http://www.multiwii.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=2965. I personally prefer to be able to fine tune settings for each variable, I'd be frustrated by having it dumbed down to a minimum, and really it all does pretty much work out of the box. I haven't given MegaPirateNG a go yet but will eventually and will enjoy the learning experience all over again.

I would like to see a bit more focus on the wiki/documentation and perhaps something like a hardware support matrix which outlines which feature-sets are supported on a given set of hardware. There have been a few suggestions already about moving to a tiered feature-sets, i.e. basic features for lower end mega328p and more advanced features like above on mega1280/2560 and above which seems to be happening organically within the community anyway.

[kataventos]

To start, this should be a general discussion not software development.

Now...

I do consider lazy the guy that is not able to tune his own drone. Of course that for a fine tuned MultiWii machine, you have to study and really understand what hardware you have and the impact of all changes you make on the software, even the smallest ones.
Some just dont understand what they need to do to get there... OK, buy other than, but do not say that the other´s are better just because you do not know why... Everyone here can see on Youtube and other channels all systems flying in every type of flight, weather conditions etc, there are fine tuned drones and baddly tuned drones on all systems available, there are good and bad pilots on all as well so...

MultiWii and everything about it was never intended to be for the lazy plug and play people anyway, Alex says it on he´s site since ever.

Is it more difficult to have a perfect flying (whatever you use) using a MultiWii based FC?
- Yes it is much more then you imagine. (that´s why you you made this "question"/affirmation)

------------------------What makes Naza 'better' than Multiwii-------------------------------

- Nothing cames to my mind. Perhaps the pilot hability to understand the primary concept of each one of the mencioned flight systems!

Hint: Everyone can drive a car, but some just should not, besides! There are Cars and Cars

Cheers,
KV

PS: To be a successful Multiwii copter pilot, you need to have the "thing" ...


EDIT: Because I like to confirm my statements and not just "talk" please check this link, it is just one more example: viewtopic.php?f=9&t=3433&p=35794#p35794

[Jared_Reabow]

Unless i missed a comment you guys all forget that there is a board that is superior to the naza and about $20 more than the multiwii pro with gps
Problem with the naza is you have to pay to get way points (a software unlock) and the naza itself is wildly expensive but the APM clones like Arduflyer 2.5 work with the missionplanner software, are very easy to set up and offer much more reliability and ease of use than the multiwii

[Frosty3k]

Reading this thread made me realize the amount of knowledge I gained about quads and MW since I first started my build about 8 to 9 months ago. Unfortunately I dont have the time to tinker with the settings that much...but I do appreciate the work that has been put in, and is being put in, right now to develop and upgrade the software.

I consider myself a beginner, a novice...hell Im a noob when it comes to properly understanding the PIDs, its a challenge to do it, and the payoff will be that much greater when ill get my quad to fly as i want.

Going naza is like ... is like playing a game, a computer or any other game...like Diablo ok...and from the begging of the game enabling the god mode and equipping the best weapon and armor the game has to offer. I have done that...and let me tell you that there is no fun in going through the game that way...it looses it's charm. Same goes with Naza.

When it comes to multirotors and MW there is a learning curve and people do this because they are passionate about quads or whatever, and they dig through forums, through the internet, to try to find how to get things moving/started or fixed. Its a lot of research you have to do before things go as you want then to go.

Since I started I had problems with the fc board, esc's, motors, even the frame...but I managed to overcome them and now I can say I know some things about quads. Experience is gained by problem-solving, only then you can say you truly understand.

I believe the people that worked so hard to put together MW actually gave us a challenge to better ourselves....and by taking the steps, testing the PID's, fixing whats broken, you get to become an expert in the field. How do you think Warthox gained all that mad skill ?!

You dont get that with naza. In my mind...MW is the right thing... I mean I like to have the options to get my fingers dirty, to tinker.

Not to step on any toes here, but its a matter of preference and it has a lot to do with how geeky you are or technically inclined, at least this is my PO.

You have probably heard this before:

It's about the journey, not the destination.

Peace

[Tnb2]

Cralis, like you I'm bitten with curiosity about Naza and bit the bullet after playing with kk2.0 and Crius AIO with GPS for seven months. I'm just starting to understand this PID tuning business and I've spent so much cash on new motors, frames, props, etc. because of so many flips (too high I?) crashes (too low P?) and I just want something that works without months of effort. That doesn't mean I'll stop tuning because that's a challenge I do want to overcome, but I just want to fly some days.

The YouTube videos look great, but I kept holding it off for months because of the mw and mpng videos that showed stable loitering and because I just didn't have the cash. But after breaking 3 plastic frames (and I can confirm fiberglass frames are way stronger than plastic ones that someone argued in another thread), 2 motors, and countless props and adapters, I want to see if investing in the controller makes a difference where I can spend more time flying than tuning. I'll find out in a week or so when it arrives.

The poster who thinks one must learn your stripes to enter this hobby must be nuts... I've been flying helis for years because I love it. That's like saying you shouldn't drive because you bought a BMW instead of a beater Ford that requires daily repairs... you dont have to be a mechanic to love driving!!! I can however say I've learned tons by building my own and I am thankful to all the developers... something I wouldn't have gotten by picking up an ardrone.

.

[kataventos]

It's about the journey, not the destination.
Peace

Hi,

yep... you definitely have the "thing"

Cheers,
-KV

[kataventos]

Hi Tnb2 and welcome since this is your first post!

The poster who ... must be nuts...
.

Confirmed, the poster is nuts

... you dont have to be a mechanic to love driving!!!

Of course...

... something I wouldn't have gotten by picking up an ardrone.

Now... that is talking!

Stay calm by making some kind of meditation, you will get to omega for sure, we all do sooner or later.

Have fun and fly safe (preference with Multiwii)
Cheers,
-KV

[Peter]

Tnb2, if I hear about a plastic frame and strange behaviour with stock parameters, I think of only one thing. Vibrations! Balance props/motors and use a low pass filter of 42hz or 20hz. Then you should be fine. I fixed multiple quads that way.

[Tnb2]

Hi Tnb2 and welcome since this is your first post!

Thank you! I've been a lurker for awhile, sucking up as much info as I could to assemble my first quad.

I've now got the Naza2+GPS and can say it is a fantastic benchmark to reach for stability and Loitering with my Crius (currently has MPNG but to be loaded with MultiWii). Some things I dislike about Naza is where it's trying to be too smart... like auto-startup after arming, auto-disarm if throttle is less than 10% for 3 seconds, etc. As well as the unusually slow GPS lock for something so pricey that my Crius GPS add-on gets in seconds for less - and indoors! I'd prefer to be in full control of throttle when it starts or goes out of control! But flight stability is impressive. I don't regret paying for one (maybe a little after finding out a Lite edition was released for half the price a week after I ordered Naza2), as I now have something to compare to while tuning.

Stay calm by making some kind of meditation, you will get to omega for sure, we all do sooner or later.
-KV

I will try... although seeing the thing out of control while tuning makes me quite uneasy!

[Tnb2]

Tnb2, if I hear about a plastic frame and strange behaviour with stock parameters, I think of only one thing. Vibrations! Balance props/motors and use a low pass filter of 42hz or 20hz. Then you should be fine. I fixed multiple quads that way.

I've tried my best to balanced the props, but I saw a youtube video one day suggesting the ring going into the hub also needs to be balanced with glue. Is this necessary?

I am no expert with motor balancing at all... but I do notice taking off the manufacturer's sticker on one side does make some difference! I've tried using the phone measurement app method, but it all looks the same to me. I've just received a set of SunnySky motors that other posts have suggested versus the Turnigy XP's and RC Timer's (that look a lot like Turnigy's), so hopefully that will help too. I'm now reading that wood is better than plastic and aluminum and carbon!?!?!?

Can you tell me what effect you have seen with a low pass filter (and it goes into the flight controller from a BEC?)

Thanks for your suggestions!

[timecop]

What makes Naza 'better' than Multiwii

Absolutely nothing.
Naza is a piece of shit targeted at rich snobs who have more money than brains and who have never touched anything RC.

[crashlander]

Can you tell me what effect you have seen with a low pass filter (and it goes into the flight controller from a BEC?)

LPF in that case is software LPF that you set in config.h for your sensor configuration (ITG3200 or MPU6050).
And it will filter the effect of vibrations and thus "random" kick-out's of multi.

Regards
Andrej

[Quadraf]

My observations regarding NAZA:
1: Very good altitude POSITION hold! ( the main selling point IMO).
I am always impressed seeing these NAZA copters do the Altitude Position hold trick...
I believe that they have a way to take in account not only GPS and Baro but also a SECRET Acc/gyro algoritme to adjust altitude position hold...?

2. What i am NOT impressed about is the NAZA arms. Always i see the slight trembling when naza arms are used! Even expensive ones have this trembling!

3. With Carbon or other material made arms the trembling is gone!

4. Conclusion: use NAZA controller board when you are in for "altitude position hold tricks" and don't use NAZA copter arms...

Hans

[timecop]

When you're few 10/100 meters up in the air, and not hovering in front of your nose, 50centimeter "altitude" hold doesn't fucking matter. Go out and fly, and you'll notice naza fucking sucks for that.

[Quadraf]

@timecop
I merely stated 1 strong point... Please copy that feature and we are all yours...

Hans

[timecop]

Sorry, unfortunately I can't implement how to fly in your head. Request denied.

[ABL]

It is already?
Pos hold with sonar on harakiri is probably few cm (up to 4m), at least when i tested it.
Alt hold in harakiri is very good also. Not so great in baseflight, but i'm not sure if it's some PID issue or broken code....
AFAIK multiwii has acc_z integrated too, so alt hold should be in less than 50cm range. What's the problem with althold?

[Katch]

Gonna chip in here since I recently picked up a Naza Lite GPS;

first off you must remember 'haters gonna hate' and you need to install your very own LPF to filter out the haters that are not objective... ie TC - I don't want to knock TCs knowledge or his contribution to MWii but a guy that took a hammer to his review sample can't be taken seriously in an objective discussion on Naza hardware.

Bit of background - I've been flying MWii quads for a long time now over 3 or 4 frames and probably about 10 different MWii FCs.

So why did I buy a Naza? I've always found MWii alt hold and GPS functions to be a bit lacking - yes they are improving and yes they are nearly there on a perfectly configured quad. Unfortunately - MWii boards don't come cased to properly shield the baro - yes you can make something, but its a pain.

Next - AIO boards with the MAG soldered on the main FC invariably suffer from interference messing up headfree and GPS function - of the 10 or so FC/IMU combos I have only 2 have perfect MAG functions (MEGA boards with the IMU elevated on standoffs)

GPS hold and RTH - I just want these functions to work without fuss - on my Naza they do.

Limitations -- I have my Naza on a Hoverthings 450 / balanced nicely - I've not encountered any wobble issues even in wind. The one area that the Naza doesn't beat the MWii in is FFF and Acro - the Naza is ponderous and docile in the extreme; whereas my MWii FCs really let me chuck the quad around and pitch off in FFF even in the 2 level modes.

Since DJI introduced the Lite - price is no longer an argument for hating them. £150 for a cased FC with GPS/RTH and solid Alt hold is a bargain. When I think that some of my earlier MWii FCs set me back more than that by the time I added a FreeIMU and a Ublox GPS etc etc (before these things became as cheap as they are today).

For MWii to render the Naza obsolete in my eyes - Alt Hold/GPS/RTH need to be debugged and hardened - then hardware manufacturers need to realise that mags need to be isolated away from the main FC and that FCs in general need to be cased (or at least the baros do). Start producing GPS modules with mags onboard and properly shielded alt sensors and then I'd probably stop flying the Naza - but right now, if I want a quad that I know is gonna stay where I put it when I want it to, I'm gonna fly my Naza.

[Quadraf]

@ Timecop
I shall put u at ease. I don't fly NAZA, only Multiwii...
Unfortunatly... more then 50% from the multicopter guys i know DO fly NAZA...They must be really stupid

@ ABL
Altitude position hold is king on NAZA, but i have to admit i never saw someone fly harikiri...?
I don't think Acc/z is implemented on Multiwii at least not the 2.1 version i fly. Can't tell if it's on 2.2 and i hope someone would enlighten me about it because i shall immediately switch over...(wich i will do shortly anyway...) .

Hans

[timecop]

I'm gonna fly my Naza.

Good riddance. Thanks for a great last post.

[Quadraf]

@Katch
I missed your post, very good indeed! Multiwii should outsmart NAZA on pos hold.

Hans

[Katch]

I'm gonna fly my Naza.

Good riddance. Thanks for a great last post.

Quoting me out of context... very helpful TC.

if I want a quad that I know is gonna stay where I put it when I want it to, I'm gonna fly my Naza.

And I'm not going to stop working with MWii on other frames nor am I going to stop contributing to this project when I can.

By the way TC - I wasn't even having a dig at you - I respect your work and your contributions very much (and I enjoy your sense of humour) - its just common knowledge that you hate (with a passion) everything the DJI have put out so your opinions on such matters need to be taken with a pinch of salt.

[alll]

Multiwii can do all the dji / nasa can do, it's a matter of having a good multi and the right PID values.
Show me a dji/nasa or other ... keeping pos hold with 25-30 km/h gutsy wind and doing 3D and "fly" like a charm. Only drawback, it needs looooots of time to get there.
manu

[kataventos]

it is really amazing how this topic keeps floating here on our working area
But OK, ehehe for the latest post´s maybe this helps a bit...

For the Baro I do this on my boards, I´m sure it is explicit:


As Alll said on the above post, this is how it goes every-time I switch it on, with or without wind :




- Is there any problem I should notice with Multiwii, or this is just crapy conversation here?
- Is there a forum for NAZA? why not highjack it also with this kind of sh... Not me of course because I really don´t have the time to this kind of discussion...

Have fun and fly safe,
-KV

[kataventos]

When you're few 10/100 meters up in the air, and not hovering in front of your nose, 50centimeter "altitude" hold doesn't fucking matter. Go out and fly, and you'll notice naza fucking sucks for that.

[scrat]

Please close this thread. Thx!