VTOL Plane like V22 Osprey

[Kayle]

Hello,

i wan´t to build an VTOL Plane like the V22 Osprey. Multiwii supports both Aircraft Types: Dualcopter and Plane/FlyingWing. But how can i switch between the two aircraft types in flight ? Is there any possibility to get this working ?

Kind Regards
Kayle

[Flensburger]

Hi Kayle.

I have the same idea.

First step i want to go to build a bi-copter in bi-copter-mode. Second step is to add the the plane-mode. The first code is coded, but not tested.

My current setup to test the software (based on MW 2.1):

- Jeti RSAT 2
- Multiwii MWC SE Flight Control Board V2.0
- 2 ESC 30A with SimoK Sw
- Tiger T-Motor MT2216 900KV
- 2 airscrew 10x4,5
- 2 servos for rotate the engine pod's

Also, its currently a low cost project, pitch controled over engine speed.

What do you like to build?

Regards,
Flensburger

[PatrikE]

Similar project.
http://www.multiwii.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=497

[RCvertt]

I did one using an arduino ProMini and modified MultiWii (1.7) code that allows the servos to tilt 180 degrees for transitions.
I would like to test it with (2.1) code or above as soon as the ability to stretch the servo signal to 180 degrees gets implemented.

Sounds like Ronco doesn't have time to implement it in his servo code so I'll see if I can track down another way or person that can do it.

Some discussion about stretching the signal is here...
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=2570

Osprey video here...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WcHWvdfRT_A

[Flensburger]

Thats what i like to have, without a tailrotor.

Whats your congiguration, motors ...

[RCvertt]

Thanks.
If you like this plane then maybe a PM to ronco asking for 180 servo travel will help

My specs are...
Motors- 1300 kv (blue wonders)
ESC- HK SS 10amp
Battery- 1800 40c 3 cell or 1200 15c 3 cell.

Code- MultiWii (1.7)
PID- Roll-P =3.0, Pitch-P=5.0, Yaw-P=7.0
Level-P=3.0

[Flensburger]

Thanks.

Watched your video's. My feeling is, you haven't flaps, i'm right?

You are using the same servos for pod control in hover mode and move to plane mode ? I like to use a different servo to move in plane mode and a servo for big flaps.

Regards,
Flensburger

[RCvertt]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hV4EgG7m ... w&index=17

The flaps are connected to the pods. Much lighter than using separate servos like you want to do.

If you have never built a VTOL before then you will quickly find out that every gram saved gives you a longer flight time. VTOL flight time is already short enough due to how heavy the aircraft ends up.

The rotormast V22-Osprey also does not use flap or aileron servos to save weight.

[RCvertt]

Will your props have cyclic helicopter controls?

If not, how will you control pitch when hovering? You will need at least 130 degrees of servo movement if you are using fixed pitch props. Hence the need for servo stretching.

[copterrichie]

Will your props have cyclic helicopter controls?

If not, how will you control pitch when hovering? You will need at least 130 degrees of servo movement if you are using fixed pitch props. Hence the need for servo stretching.

Not really, it depends upon the lengths of the Servo and Control horns if that is what is being used. If a direct drive system is used, that is a difference story.

[RCvertt]

...it depends upon the lengths of the Servo and Control horns if that is what is being used. If a direct drive system is used, that is a difference story.

I use direct drive. I've tried with control horns and it's possible but they add slop, weight, binding problems when moved past 90 degrees and put more strain on the servo which causes them to fail quicker and use up more power.

I would like to help others get one in the air if I can get some servo stretching implemented back into the MultiWii code.

[Flensburger]

Will your props have cyclic helicopter controls?

Currently no, but later yes. The first version is to train the pilot

A bigger second V22 is planed with it.

[copterrichie]

I have seen your V22 RVertt and believe this, my Bicopters and their tilting mechanics is supreme. But I digress.

And for the record:

Mini-Mollie weighs in a 1kg, Black Mollie, 1.7kg and Mollie VTOL, 2.1kg and Weight is not an issue for me.

[copterrichie]

If I were to make an exact copy of the V22, this is how I would do it. This guy is on the right track: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthre ... st24371268

[RCvertt]

Will your props have cyclic helicopter controls?

Currently no, but later yes. The first version is to train the pilot

A bigger second V22 is planed with it.

Cool. A fixed pitch foamy version should make a good trainer and does repair much easier than a collective one

I want to go collective eventually also but for now the foamy version that only weighs 530 grams, including battery, achieves full forward wing borne flight with ease. Adding two more servos for the ailerons won't make a huge difference in weight.

I'm looking for help though to continue my work with the MultiWii if possible which is why I need the 180 servo stretching.

[NikTheGreek]

Have you seen that ?

http://www.wired.com/autopia/2013/03/agustawestland-electric-tilt-rotor/

Interesting NEW Design !

[Flensburger]

Ups, only 530 grams !
I'm planing with around 1200 grams. Currently checking the motorsetup. Luks like to use 2 T-Motor MT2216 900kv with 30A ESC and two 3S2200.
I hope to have enough thrust in hover mode with a additioal servo to rotate the pod's.

Coding on latest MW version is in progress.

[Flensburger]

If I were to make an exact copy of the V22, this is how I would do it. This guy is on the right track: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthre ... st24371268

Whow, thats interesting, thanks to link it in.

[copterrichie]

Ups, only 530 grams !
I'm planing with around 1200 grams. Currently checking the motorsetup. Luks like to use 2 T-Motor MT2216 900kv with 30A ESC and two 3S2200.
I hope to have enough thrust in hover mode with a additioal servo to rotate the pod's.

Coding on latest MW version is in progress.

A lot will depend upon the props used with the MT2216 motors. It is ruffly 28mm x 34mm and MAY not have enough torque to swing a 12" or 13" prop fast enough with a 3S battery. However, I think a 9" or 10" prop with a 4S battery will put you right in the pocket.

[RCvertt]

Ups, only 530 grams !
I'm planing with around 1200 grams. Currently checking the motorsetup. Luks like to use 2 T-Motor MT2216 900kv with 30A ESC and two 3S2200.
I hope to have enough thrust in hover mode with a additioal servo to rotate the pod's.

Coding on latest MW version is in progress.

Your wing loading just needs to be proportional to the weight of your aircraft. 530 grams is for a bird like mine that has a 20 inch wing span. If your wing span is sufficiently longer than 20 inches you should be ok.

[RCvertt]

A low KV like 900 will be good for static thrust to lift your copter but it won't make you go very fast once you start to fly forward on the wing. It'll be like a car stuck in second gear. Plenty of power for vertical takoff like going up a hill but not much on speed like going down a flat, straight road. It's all a balancing act so you have to choose which is more important to you, hovering and lifting a heavy payload or flying forward at a fast speed.

[Flensburger]

Thanks for your comments, isn't easy to select a good configuration.
I found a helper :
http://www.ecalc.ch/xcoptercalc_e.asp

Let you know if i had selected one.