Run MultiWii @ 400 Hz - Very Important - ESC - Solution!

jessestr · Post by **jessestr** » Tue Mar 27, 2012 2:57 pm

Hi there

There is some rumor that the hobbywing esc's won't work anymore on MultiWii because of the 490Hz PWM update rate.. Other FC's which use 400 work well..

Warthox has reported this problem here: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1608239

Is there any way to change the 490 Hz to 400 Hz so the HobbyWing will work again..

Thanks!

kos · Post by **kos** » Tue Mar 27, 2012 5:15 pm

yes , with the new output.pde (thanks to ronco) it is quite easy to change ..

ps : can you please update the title with 'esc'

ronco · Post by **ronco** » Tue Mar 27, 2012 5:37 pm

Hi,

i did a flight with such ESCs and a promicro today with no problems! so i belive that it is not the 488hz i think its more the resolution!
http://www.rc-heli-fan.org/quadrocopter ... l#p1370125 (german)

if this is true .. that kind of ESC's should work with a mega for up to hexa too.

regards felix

jessestr · Post by **jessestr** » Tue Mar 27, 2012 6:37 pm

Thanks!

Ronco.. What about the 10A HobbyWing's .. Do they still work?

And I have 3 HW10A - HW133V2 (the old ones) I lost my fourth by crashing.. can I use a newer version together with the older ones?

And where can I find the new output.pde?

Thanks

Jesse

ronco · Post by **ronco** » Tue Mar 27, 2012 6:56 pm

Hi Jesse,

the new output is alredy in 2.0 .. and if it is the resolution. it will not fix anything for the promini!

i did some more tests now and this ESC's i have (that looks like the one from warthox) seem to work with less resolution and 488Hz too.

the new better reolution works only with a mega or a 32u4 (promicro) .. not for promini..

the older "atmel" ESC's will work as thay did in 1.9 but i cant tell you if thay work well together.

regards Felix

jessestr · Post by **jessestr** » Tue Mar 27, 2012 8:31 pm

ronco wrote:Hi Jesse,

the new output is alredy in 2.0 .. and if it is the resolution. it will not fix anything for the promini!

i did some more tests now and this ESC's i have (that looks like the one from warthox) seem to work with less resolution and 488Hz too.

the new better reolution works only with a mega or a 32u4 (promicro) .. not for promini..

the older "atmel" ESC's will work as thay did in 1.9 but i cant tell you if thay work well together.

regards Felix

Thanks.

I guess I have to switch from flightcontroller

Cronalex · Post by **Cronalex** » Wed Mar 28, 2012 1:06 am

This problem also exists on these esc? hobbywing skywalker 20a?? or can I go quiet

Cronalex · Post by **Cronalex** » Wed Mar 28, 2012 1:18 am

kos wrote:yes , with the new output.pde (thanks to ronco) it is quite easy to change ..

I can not find where to set to 400

ronco · Post by **ronco** » Wed Mar 28, 2012 8:04 am

Hi,

i made a output for 2.0 that can do some 400Hz

on top of it is ESC_400 defined

the result is

Promini
- Motor1: 400Hz resolution 125 (as it is without this mod)
- Motor2: 400Hz resolution 125
- Motor3: 244Hz resolution 64 (more isnt possible with HW PWM and lower Hz then 488 on Timer 2)
- Motor4: 244Hz resolution 64
- Motor 5-8 is still 488hz

Promicro
- Motor1: 400Hz resolution 1023 (as it is without this mod)
- Motor2: 400Hz resolution 1023
- Motor3: 400Hz resolution 511 (more isnt possible with HW PWM on Timer 4)
- Motor4: 400Hz resolution 511
- Motor 5-8 is still 488hz

Mega
- Motor1: 400Hz resolution 1023 (as it is without this mod)
- Motor2: 400Hz resolution 1023
- Motor3: 400Hz resolution 1023
- Motor4: 400Hz resolution 1023
- Motor5: 400Hz resolution 1023
- Motor6: 400Hz resolution 1023
- Motor 7 & 8 is still 488hz

this is just to make shure that the problems are, or are not because of the 488Hz!

if it is i will see if there are better ways for promini! .. and then i may also make the soft PWM motors (5-8) work at 400Hz

this works only with MWC 2.0!

regards felix

Cronalex · Post by **Cronalex** » Wed Mar 28, 2012 8:16 am

Cronalex wrote:This problem also exists on these esc? hobbywing skywalker 20a?? or can I go quiet

up

ronco · Post by **ronco** » Wed Mar 28, 2012 8:42 am

Cronalex wrote:
Cronalex wrote:This problem also exists on these esc? hobbywing skywalker 20a?? or can I go quiet

up

i dont know .. i dont have that ESC's but i think it is. (http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1608239)

i changed the output mod again .. now Motor 1-4 for Promini is 400Hz and 125 steps resolution!
motor 2 & 3 is now with soft PWM .. i think that is better then HW PWM with 244Hz

so:

Promini
- Motor1: 400Hz resolution 125 (as it is without this mod)
- Motor2: 400Hz resolution 125
- Motor3: 400Hz resolution 125
- Motor4: 400Hz resolution 125
- Motor 5-8 is still 488hz

Promicro
- Motor1: 400Hz resolution 1023 (as it is without this mod)
- Motor2: 400Hz resolution 1023
- Motor3: 400Hz resolution 511 (more isnt possible with HW PWM on Timer 4)
- Motor4: 400Hz resolution 511
- Motor 5-8 is still 488hz

Mega
- Motor1: 400Hz resolution 1023 (as it is without this mod)
- Motor2: 400Hz resolution 1023
- Motor3: 400Hz resolution 1023
- Motor4: 400Hz resolution 1023
- Motor5: 400Hz resolution 1023
- Motor6: 400Hz resolution 1023
- Motor 7 & 8 is still 488hz

regards

felix

chris ables · Post by **chris ables** » Wed Mar 28, 2012 1:23 pm

RONCO DO I REPLACE THE OUTPUT IN 2.0 WITH THIS ONE OR DO I ADD IT TO IT?

chris ables · Post by **chris ables** » Wed Mar 28, 2012 2:00 pm

GOT IT ! I JUST REPLACE THE STOCK FILE WITH YOURS !! GREAT JOB RONCO YOU ARE THE MAN !!!! THANX !!

ronco · Post by **ronco** » Wed Mar 28, 2012 2:55 pm

Hi Chris,

can you please tell us what ESC's do you use?

and is there a big difference now with 400Hz?

if it is i will make this mod clean. so defines in config.h and i will also turn the SW PWM motors (5-8) to 400Hz

regards Felix

chris ables · Post by **chris ables** » Wed Mar 28, 2012 4:23 pm

Ronco i have skywalker esc's and they run at 423hz ! That file runs great in my quad ! Throttle is alot smoother and quad feels 100% better !! Please let me know if you make a cleaner version as i think this is a great thing !! THANK YOU VERY MUCH ! Can you make me an output file at 423hz ? Thats what hobbywings run at ! If not thats ok because this feels real solid and smooth!!

jessestr · Post by **jessestr** » Thu Mar 29, 2012 9:40 pm

Hi Ronco

Do you know if it's confirmed already? For the pro mini then..

I bought some new HW10A HW133V2 .. (the good ones) so I won't be able to test it I think?

ronco · Post by **ronco** » Fri Mar 30, 2012 6:33 am

jessestr wrote:Hi Ronco

Do you know if it's confirmed already? For the pro mini then..

I bought some new HW10A HW133V2 .. (the good ones) so I won't be able to test it I think?

i dont know. chris ables is the only one who had a good result with this 400Hz mod (or the only one who told us)

i talked to warthox and he isnt shure that it is because the 488Hz .. so i may be good if some more people can give us some feedback

chris ables wrote:Can you make me an output file at 423hz ?

it may be possible but i dont think that it will be a difference to 400Hz

regards Felix

DaveY · Post by **DaveY** » Fri Mar 30, 2012 10:49 am

Will this mod work with the Arduino pro mini?

I have an Arduino mini based quad using the new Hobbywing 25A ESC's - am having the same troubles experienced by Warthox.

If the mod works with the mini I will try it out over the weekend and report back.

Cheers
Dave

ronco · Post by **ronco** » Fri Mar 30, 2012 12:21 pm

Hi Dave,

yes this mod works with the promini but just for the first 4 motors (for BI - Quad)

would be nice if you can so some tests and report it here!

regards Felix

chris ables · Post by **chris ables** » Fri Mar 30, 2012 1:59 pm

Me and henry caldwell ran the 400hz file a bunch yesterday and had good results but dont know if it was refresh rate or lower resolution that did it but we both have good results with it ! Henry has the flyfun 18 amp and i have the skywalker 20 amp ! I wished the gui had refresh rate and resolution adjustments in it where everyone could run what they want ! Go look at the xaircraft gui and look at these adjustments for esc's and you will see what i mean ! I honostly think it was the lower resolution that helped most !!

timecop · Post by **timecop** » Fri Mar 30, 2012 2:05 pm

In light of this, I added fully user-configurable refresh rate for both servo and motor, which can be set to any period between 50 and 498Hz in the STM32 port. (actually, values could be more than that, but you get the idea).
This is thanks to the chip having proper PWM capture and generating hardware blocks, and no need to worry about bitbanging or wasting 8bit timers. Of course, this is with 1us resolution.

Code: Select all

    uint16_t motor_pwm_rate;                // The update rate of motor outputs (50-498Hz)
    uint16_t servo_pwm_rate;                // The update rate of servo outputs (50-498Hz)

TIM_TimeBaseStructure.TIM_Period = (1000000 / init->motorPwmRate) - 1;

Isn't it about time you guys moved to a platform where generating PWM isn't a pain in the ass?

ronco · Post by **ronco** » Fri Mar 30, 2012 2:27 pm

chris ables wrote:Me and henry caldwell ran the 400hz file a bunch yesterday and had good results but dont know if it was refresh rate or lower resolution that did it but we both have good results with it ! Henry has the flyfun 18 amp and i have the skywalker 20 amp ! I wished the gui had refresh rate and resolution adjustments in it where everyone could run what they want ! Go look at the xaircraft gui and look at these adjustments for esc's and you will see what i mean ! I honostly think it was the lower resolution that helped most !!

hi,

the resolution dosent changes for promini !

@ dongs
it is true that changing the refresh rate for 8 bit timer is a pain .. but its just the promini that runs PWM outputs with 8 bit! the mega and the 32u4 uses 11-16 bit .. for this ones it is quite easy to change.

no need for 200% power just for different PWM frequecys

regards

felix

chris ables · Post by **chris ables** » Fri Mar 30, 2012 10:08 pm

Thats cool , then the refresh rate did make a difference on mine ! I installed 8x4.5 props instead of the 9x4.47 that i had on it today and wow my quad feels locked on and great ! Just flew 10 min straight at 80% to full throttle whole time and it never wobbled or bogged ! I'll try and get henry to shoot vid of me this weekend to show ya'll ! Ronco i am very pleased that you made this 400hz output file and look forward to trying anything for you ! Just let me know if you need testing if it dont involve baro or mag !! I fly all aerobatics mostly other than just flying around easy to feel if locked in !!

Cronalex · Post by **Cronalex** » Fri Mar 30, 2012 10:55 pm

but it also works with crius?

lukibob · Post by **lukibob** » Sat Mar 31, 2012 6:48 pm

I have this problem with the new version of esc I bought. I have a Turnigy basic 18ahttp://static.rcgroups.net/forums/attachments/1/1/0/0/5/0/a4735396-140-IMG_8375.jpg), wmp original, promini arduino, 24g hextronic motors, 8x47 props, motor to esc connect with deans micro 4plug.

http://static.rcgroups.net/forums/attac ... G_8375.jpg

the copter will hover nice, and fly forward nice for a few moments, then it gets the shakes for about 20 seconds, then returns to smooth for a while. I have tried arduino code 1.9, 2.0, 2.0 with 400hz output and 2.0 with 400hz_2 output. None of them get rid of the shakes. Version 1.9 was unfllyable, it would eventually flip. Version 2.0 is flyable, but eventually gets shakes. PID does tame it down, but never eliminates. Even with low P and zero for I and D, still gets unstable. It seems like a small overshoot in the correction loop that eventually aligns and causes oscilating at a very low frequency(1-2hz range) then it subsides

I am at a loss now, going to try and fix my old esc (it needs a smd resistor that broke off, I hope) that these were to replace.

Sorry for no advice, but am just reporting my findings.

warthox · Post by **warthox** » Sat Mar 31, 2012 7:10 pm

i tried the modded 400hz output.pde today.
quad x with mt2208 / 10A hw esc / 8" prop / mwc board with mpu6050 and promini.

used the actual mwc fw 2.0.
first with default output.pde. and directly after with the modded 400hz output.pde

there was absolutly no difference.

Crashpilot1000 · Post by **Crashpilot1000** » Tue Apr 03, 2012 7:56 pm

Hi !
I just tried your output2.zip on mwii 2.0. My ESC support 490 MHZ - so i just tried.
I was flying in my new quad (Robbe Roxxy 930, Hacker 20-20Evo, Promini & WMP & BMA 020 & BMP 085, 2k2 Pullup). After changing and saving the values (serial LCD config) the motors did not arm (i have ARM on a switch) - i reconnected the serial lcd and found that all the values were completely erratic (e.g. P 8,5 I 120 etc....). I pressed reset and dis/reconnected the Lipo - same problem. At home with the GUI i saw all values in eprom were wrong. I never experienced something like that before. I reflashed 2.0 with the original Output.ino. Can the garbled eprom be a result of your new output.ino? I am not sure, maybe its the LCD config part in 2.0, maybe its my setup/hardware. I will report if something like this happens again with the original 2.0.

(This was my 1st post here...)

Crashpilot

jrt4fun · Post by **jrt4fun** » Fri Apr 13, 2012 12:33 pm

Hi guys,

I build a quadcopter based on the Crius board with 10A Hobbywing esc and MW 2.0
It flies just perfect.

So I build a bigger one with the multiwii mega board + Turnigy Plush 18A + KEDA 22 10 brushless motors + MW 2.0
It is just all over the place. :twisted:

I have to struggle to keep it in the air. Heretic throttle response continuous corrections to be done.
Calibarted esc's serveal times, no joy.

Since the Turnigy 18A are 'sil', I cannot reflash them...
But I will certainly give it a go with the adapted output file (400Hz)

Hopefully some good weather this weekend to give it a try.
I will keep you posted...

jrt4fun · Post by **jrt4fun** » Mon Apr 16, 2012 9:05 am

Hi,

I tested the 400Hz version but still no joy on strange quad behaviour.

Started again from scratch in balancing props and brushless motors.
Very nice result. Quad is airborn without any problem.

Heretic behaviour of the esc's was due to vibrations causing the gyro to get false readings.
Resulting in no constant (linear) output to the esc.

Lesson learned here: balance, balance and balance

Regards

lukibob · Post by **lukibob** » Mon Apr 16, 2012 4:12 pm

I switched the esc with my old ones, had to fix a resistor that fell off. Tried to fly, no other changes. This was using mwc 2.0. It was still wobbly in flight, but not too sure if it was bad PID tuning. I reloaded 1.9 with stock value of PID, fly fine. ESC definately made a difference. These were HK SS 18a escs from last year. The new Turnigy Basic 18 will not work with pro mini Arduino hardware and any existing version of code.

I have however put together a new controller with a wmp and Arduino pro micro. It looks like it will work with the Turnigy Basic escs. Still building frame and mounting for gyro.

jevermeister · Post by **jevermeister** » Tue Apr 17, 2012 9:15 am

Hi there,
I built my first Quad with Turnigy Plush 25A and it was rock solid, I could throw it into the air and arm it in mid air and it leveled nicely.
After I lost it I rebuilt the exact same copter but used HK Super Simple, these ESC stopped doing the stress test by forcing one motor down rapidly and I had wobbles of death.
I now use Hobbywing Pentium 18A since they seem to be identic to turnigy plush but I still wobble of death and my copter twitches and looses height now and then.

Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6nFd-ZBJeNE&list=UUBhtBxdQEBLZ8pjLZXKnIHw&index=1&feature=plcp

Could this be connected to the 490hz problem??

Nils

ronco · Post by **ronco** » Tue Apr 17, 2012 9:54 am

Hi Nils,

i dont think that this is the 490hz problem .. eaven it isnt sure that there is a problem with 490hz.. warthox did some tests with no result.. so i think it is more the new versions of these ESC's (see http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1608239)..

i have some good results with 16-bit PWM (promicro or mega) with ESC's that looks the same but from a different brand. i will do a cross test (8-bit vs 16bit) with these ESC's soon ..

regards Felix

jevermeister · Post by **jevermeister** » Tue Apr 17, 2012 10:21 am

ronco wrote:Hi Nils,

i dont think that this is the 490hz problem .. eaven it isnt sure that there is a problem with 490hz.. warthox did some tests with no result.. so i think it is more the new versions of these ESC's (see http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1608239)..

i have some good results with 16-bit PWM (promicro or mega) with ESC's that looks the same but from a different brand. i will do a cross test (8-bit vs 16bit) with these ESC's soon ..

regards Felix

Hi Felix,
thank you for your answer, can you give me some more detail about the 8bit/16bit problem?

I fly a mega 2560

Nils

LenzGr · Post by **LenzGr** » Tue Apr 17, 2012 11:08 am

Nils: I don't think the higher resolution is your problem (this only changes the number of "steps" in which the PWM signal can be modified), but likely the higher update frequency which 2.0 is driving the ESCs with. It looks as if your ESCs "choke" from the rapid succession of changes that are being sent from the controller.

jevermeister · Post by **jevermeister** » Tue Apr 17, 2012 11:14 am

The update Rate was changed in 2.0?
I thought it was 488Hz all the time...

Nils
so the fix could help here?

Nils

ronco · Post by **ronco** » Tue Apr 17, 2012 11:17 am

LenzGr wrote:Nils: I don't think the higher resolution is your problem (this only changes the number of "steps" in which the PWM signal can be modified), but likely the higher update frequency which 2.0 is driving the ESCs with. It looks as if your ESCs "choke" from the rapid succession of changes that are being sent from the controller.

hi,

the refresh rate dosent changes in 2.0 ! it is 488hz and it was 488hz..

i just changed the resolution for the mega. and this wont make problems.

@jevermeister its good to know that the 16bit resolution dont fix this ESC problem .. you may trie this 400hz mod .. would be good to know if this fix it.

to be sure that you have this "bad" ESC's, you may give us a foto of the FET's side.

regards Felix

chris ables · Post by **chris ables** » Tue Apr 17, 2012 11:30 am

jevermeister wrote:Hi there,
I built my first Quad with Turnigy Plush 25A and it was rock solid, I could throw it into the air and arm it in mid air and it leveled nicely.
After I lost it I rebuilt the exact same copter but used HK Super Simple, these ESC stopped doing the stress test by forcing one motor down rapidly and I had wobbles of death.
I now use Hobbywing Pentium 18A since they seem to be identic to turnigy plush but I still wobble of death and my copter twitches and looses height now and then.

Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6nFd-ZBJeNE&list=UUBhtBxdQEBLZ8pjLZXKnIHw&index=1&feature=plcp

Could this be connected to the 490hz problem??

Nils

My quad did this same exact thing and i was running 9x4.7 props . I switched to 8x4.5 props and problem went away! You may try smaller props for this ! Also if it's the same motor everytime it could be a bullet connector problem if you use bullet connectors ! I hardwire all my connections !

jevermeister · Post by **jevermeister** » Tue Apr 17, 2012 11:32 am

Ho do you know that the 16bit resolution do not fix my problem? _Is this new resolution in MW2.0??

I did the mistake of switching the asc AND the software without flying new ESC witho old software and the other way around.

I still need to learn.
I need a fix fast - I am about to order 5x Turnigy Plush 12A, they are available in HK Germany

jevermeister · Post by **jevermeister** » Tue Apr 17, 2012 11:33 am

chris ables wrote:
jevermeister wrote:Hi there,
I built my first Quad with Turnigy Plush 25A and it was rock solid, I could throw it into the air and arm it in mid air and it leveled nicely.
After I lost it I rebuilt the exact same copter but used HK Super Simple, these ESC stopped doing the stress test by forcing one motor down rapidly and I had wobbles of death.
I now use Hobbywing Pentium 18A since they seem to be identic to turnigy plush but I still wobble of death and my copter twitches and looses height now and then.

Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6nFd-ZBJeNE&list=UUBhtBxdQEBLZ8pjLZXKnIHw&index=1&feature=plcp

Could this be connected to the 490hz problem??

Nils

My quad did this same exact thing and i was running 9x4.7 props . I switched to 8x4.5 props and problem went away! You may try smaller props for this !

I flew with 8" props already - the instability was there too :-/

ronco · Post by **ronco** » Tue Apr 17, 2012 11:38 am

jevermeister wrote:Ho do you know that the 16bit resolution do not fix my problem? _Is this new resolution in MW2.0??

yes it is.

do you tried it with 1.9? just to be sure it isnt that new resolution.

regards felix

jevermeister · Post by **jevermeister** » Tue Apr 17, 2012 11:48 am

ronco wrote:
jevermeister wrote:Ho do you know that the 16bit resolution do not fix my problem? _Is this new resolution in MW2.0??

yes it is.

do you tried it with 1.9? just to be sure it isnt that new resolution.

regards felix

I will try that, but I had the Wobble of death with 1.9 too.
Maybe my min throttle is too high and this causes wobble of death?

Nils

ronco · Post by **ronco** » Tue Apr 17, 2012 12:31 pm

i dont think that a high mintrottle do those problems ..
.. but i dont know it for sure!

regards felix

fr3d · Post by **fr3d** » Tue Apr 17, 2012 1:21 pm

do you knwo if this mod give a real positive effect with multiwii 2.0, dys30A esc, kdea20-22L motors, and 2560 flyduino board ?
regards.

jevermeister · Post by **jevermeister** » Tue Apr 17, 2012 9:45 pm

Funny thing is, that I flew some rounds today and everything was fine

--> Loose connector??

LenzGr · Post by **LenzGr** » Tue Apr 17, 2012 10:12 pm

jevermeister wrote:Funny thing is, that I flew some rounds today and everything was fine
--> Loose connector??

Odd. If you did not change anything else, I suspect a bad solder joint somewhere. These are hard to spot, unfortunately.

sg1anubis · Post by **sg1anubis** » Thu Apr 19, 2012 8:41 am

Might the increased refresh rate cause problems with my servos? I had planned to use two servos for my gimbal and either they can't read the signal or the pin definitions are incorrect for my flight controller. I tried changing the pin definitions with not success and now I am starting to wonder if it is a problem with the refresh rate.

ronco · Post by **ronco** » Thu Apr 19, 2012 10:08 am

Hi,

all PWM refresh rates are just like thay was in all previus MWC versions! its just and only the resolution that changed in 2.0 and this also only for the mega.

regards felix

sg1anubis · Post by **sg1anubis** » Thu Apr 19, 2012 10:12 am

Ya, I ruled out that it isn't a refresh issue, the pin assignments need to be changed but I haven't figured that out yet.

jevermeister · Post by **jevermeister** » Fri Apr 20, 2012 10:55 pm

Hi there,

I just tested this mod regarding my wobble of death problem.
The 400Hz mod does not fix that. So my problem lies elsewhere - DAMN!

Nils

jessestr · Post by **jessestr** » Fri Apr 20, 2012 11:59 pm

Just a loose connection?