Helicopter integration

Hamburger · Post by **Hamburger** » Sun May 26, 2013 10:25 pm

Led blinks slowly when heli tilted (25 degrees or more I think).
For level to work you must at least once do calibration of acc sensor either via gui or your tx with sticks combination.
Else the flip is guaranteed.

Plüschi · Post by **Plüschi** » Mon May 27, 2013 4:38 pm

str8inpilot wrote:getting a viable, flying helicopter, so using a $20 board

I am using this 19$ HK board in my trex450 FBL very sucessfully. Flies very smooth. Orangerx sat attached to the board.

str8inpilot wrote:there are issues with some of the cheaper arduino boards from HK

Your description of lock-ups sounds like a mayor wiring mess-up to me. Do you use the UBEC or the onboard regulator? Did you close the soldering jumper or not? You did not run the servos trough the boards own 5V regulator i hope ?

olaf45 · Post by **olaf45** » Mon May 27, 2013 8:20 pm

Hamburger wrote:Led blinks slowly when heli tilted (25 degrees or more I think).
For level to work you must at least once do calibration of acc sensor either via gui or your tx with sticks combination.
Else the flip is guaranteed.

Thanks for you reply . I don't find in the code where the led blinked when the heli tilted .
For the calibration of acc sensor , unfortunately I did it . In fact, at stop , when I move the heli the level correction seems good and I don't kwon what is the problem while running ( not easy to have GUI while engine runs ) .

regards

Hamburger · Post by **Hamburger** » Mon May 27, 2013 9:43 pm

With heli it could be vibrations. I have that on a 250 as well. Needs lots of trimming. Might be caused by grade b sensor chip.

olaf45 · Post by **olaf45** » Sun Jun 02, 2013 3:39 pm

Hi Hamburger,

Even with a lot of trim, the heli flight like a stone when I switch from accro to level mode. I can't take off in level mode ( too jerky ) . Can you take off in level mode ?
I will buy a bluetooth device to analyse data during flight .

regards

Hamburger · Post by **Hamburger** » Sun Jun 02, 2013 3:54 pm

yes, I do almost all my flying in horizon mode with my helis. It saves me from crashing constantly. Unknowing passers-by even consider me a good pilot sometimes

olaf45 · Post by **olaf45** » Sun Jun 02, 2013 11:17 pm

Incredible, i really should have a trouble of tuning. Can you give me , the PID values you use for level mode?

Regards

Olivier

Hamburger · Post by **Hamburger** » Mon Jun 03, 2013 8:35 am

olaf45 wrote:Incredible, i really should have a trouble of tuning. Can you give me , the PID values you use for level mode?

Plüschi · Post by **Plüschi** » Mon Jun 03, 2013 8:51 am

@olaf
Attached how i fly my trex450 clone with rjx-head clone and mild acro servo throw.
Look at the LEVEL.
Roll P can go up to 2 without shaking, Pitch is more delicate. I have the 5hz filter engaged but not gyro_smoothing.

olaf45 · Post by **olaf45** » Mon Jun 03, 2013 8:22 pm

Thanks to you

My tuning is close to yours.

multiwii tuning.tiff: (27.59 KiB) Not downloaded yet

I have
#define ITG3200_LPF_98HZ
and
#define GYRO_SMOOTHING {30, 30, 3}

Perhaps I should be more radical on the low pass filter

Hamburger · Post by **Hamburger** » Thu Jun 13, 2013 12:06 pm

Just re-maidened the rex250 with nanoWii prototype board and the all new

r1465 wrote:#define A32U4_4_HW_PWM_SERVOS
#define SERVO_RFR_RATE 200 // ok for graupner des 261 & 291

It really makes a difference, feels so much more locked in (I never knew what that meant but what I just experienced does deserve that term)! To say I am impressed is an understatement. (thanks for 32u4 coding info and help go to ronco)

Now I can possibly retune all the pids and then move on to my other 200mm helis. The 328p board for the 325mm heli suddenly looks insufficient and will have to make way for another 32u4 board ... ah, so much to do.

Downside: not all digital servos are created equal. One heli has the align 410/420 servos, digital but only safe up to 70Hz, can you believe that? That heli will eventually need new servos.

justk1w1 · Post by **justk1w1** » Mon Jun 24, 2013 5:58 am

Hamburger - what version of software are you running. I'm still using PatrickE's version which is well over 12 months old - would really like to get them back to the main release.

The journey so far
After months of agony and frustration I have finally got my 250 FBL up and running - had heaps of problems and couldn't work out what was going wrong. Everything seemed to be working correctly, but it was just not stable - the offending servo finally gave up and once I replaced it I was up and running. I was at the point that I was going to write it off as bad project and look to buy a FBL unit. Couldn't work it out - Everything setup correctly, but as soon as I tried to fly it would just be all over the place - numerous crashes

but after replacing the servo got it up with a FB head and then swapped it out to FBL and didn't have to change the PIDs much - now have it up every chance I can get - really enjoying it.

Started setting up one of my 450's with a 328P and DFC FBL had some initial probs with a lot of vibration from the tail, but after I tightened the tail belt slightly they all seem to have gone. Going through the PID setup for this at the moment - all works out then I will convert the TT to DFC FBL as well.

Cheers

PatrikE · Post by **PatrikE** » Mon Jun 24, 2013 9:32 am

Use V2.2 or latest dev release.
The one in my branch is outdated now.
Or even _shared with servo setup from gui.

Hamburger · Post by **Hamburger** » Mon Jun 24, 2013 1:25 pm

justk1w1 wrote:Hamburger - what version of software are you running. I'm still using PatrickE's version which is well over 12 months old - would really like to get them back to the main release.

The reworked yaw code does not work well for copters with servos. But yaw is _the_ problem still, so currently experimenting with different yaw algorithms. In the mean time, r1469 is quite flyable but no current documentation. Patrik's advice is good.

justk1w1 · Post by **justk1w1** » Mon Jun 24, 2013 2:25 pm

Excellent - thanks guys - I'll try the r1469

justk1w1 · Post by **justk1w1** » Tue Jul 02, 2013 8:33 am

Setting up a new 32U4 board for a 450TT. At this stage I have been running with the A32U4_4_HW_PWM_SERVOS undefined. Started look at the changes required with this turned on and at this stage I can only work out the following rx inputs:
#define PCINT_RX_BITS (1<<1),(1<<2),(1<<3),(1<<4) - portb 1-4 - SCK,MOSI,MISO,D8 and the special declare in the rx section for the throttle on pin7 (D7). The only other alternatives are to put aux2 on RCAUX2PIND17 or RCAUX2PINRXO. With the LEO board I don't have access to Pin17 and I don't want to loose the RX0 as I want to actaually connect a BT. I assume the NANO has PIN17 broken out.
There doesn't seem to be any setting for AUX2 on pin 12 like the 328P - have I missed something here??

Hamburger · Post by **Hamburger** » Tue Jul 02, 2013 8:59 am

better ask that in the nanoWii / 32U4 threads?
I only run nanoWii boards with Spektrum satellite, cannot help you there.

olaf45 · Post by **olaf45** » Sun Aug 25, 2013 4:41 pm

Hello,

I always struggle with the horizon mode and angle mode. Where can I found the synoptic of PID regulation with angle mode and horizon mode.
With horizon mode, I have a lot delay with my rccommand.

Thanks for your help

Olivier

forsakenrider · Post by **forsakenrider** » Thu Aug 29, 2013 4:06 am

Has anyone tried running this on one of the little Walkera helis? would be a nice way to rid yourself of their 4in1!

olaf45 · Post by **olaf45** » Sat Sep 21, 2013 4:13 pm

Hello,

I tested the horizon mode with a bluetooth device to see online data with the GUI. I understood the problem. The pitch angle increases slowly ( the heli is always horizontal ) and crashes at 90° value. When the engine is off, no problem the level is good .
I didn't find the kind of trouble on forum .
Any idea ?

Thanks

Hamburger · Post by **Hamburger** » Sat Sep 21, 2013 7:24 pm

have seen that before, a real pain to track and cure. If possible,
- increase distance between motor+esc and board,
- use coil in signal+5V wires between esc and board

olaf45 · Post by **olaf45** » Sun Sep 22, 2013 7:55 pm

Hello Hamburger ,

I tried your tips but the result is still the same. Isn't there any soft modification to smooth the ACC answer ?

Regards

Olivier

RC Man · Post by **RC Man** » Mon Sep 30, 2013 2:31 am

WOW , I have to take my hat off to you guys, This is big time stuff your all working on.
I myself fly a Flymentor on a fb heli, I got it setup real good, I can do light 3d with it, but only slowly, the gyro in it don't like fast moves.
I was at a buddy's house today, and he has a 450pro fbl with a helicommand on it, with the self leveling, in my eyes, it doesn't work as good as the FM, and costs like 4x as much.
I would love to be able to build a system like your all using, sounds like a bunch of potential is in these things, just I'm not so good with programming.
I have 9 450s, 3are built, and only 1 has the Flymentor on it. The other 2 fly real good without it, just not having the self leveling keeps me from doing stupid crazy stuff.
Its nice to try different moves, and when ya get in a tight spot, ya just let go of the cyclic, and it stays there waiting for the next command, It does it too when inverted also, so a big help on learning inverted.
If I could get an fbl with this kind of feature, I could help my buddy out with his, he has been messing with it for a year already, and I wouldnt trust it either, kinda like its real slow on going back to level, I would probably crash it when I let go of the cyc. at 50ft up.
Is there a mini version of the system you all are using? Yall got me onto it now lol, Another Multiwii person on the earth, My wife will thank you all wink
Here is the 450 I built, and would like to integrate multiwii in. As ya see, there is not much room on it for a big system on it, And yes, the frame is from Titanium
Weight is 625gms with the batt in it. My RTF Lawndart

Frank

Hamburger · Post by **Hamburger** » Mon Sep 30, 2013 8:36 pm

I have mounted a 5x5cm board (which was kinda standard size) on the tail boom block together with an 8lines display so it can be tuned and monitored without computer interaction.
If you want smaller then get a nanowii or mini crius?? Board. The

RC Man · Post by **RC Man** » Mon Sep 30, 2013 11:55 pm

Hamburger wrote:I have mounted a 5x5cm board (which was kinda standard size) on the tail boom block together with an 8lines display so it can be tuned and monitored without computer interaction.
If you want smaller then get a nanowii or mini crius?? Board. The

Thanks man, I just have to get all the parts, or a parts list and then look through here and set it up.
Will be a big challenge for me, but I am hard headed, and cant stop if I put my head to something.
Hamburger, are you in Germany? I saw your flying Hamburger in your profile. cool

Frank

justk1w1 · Post by **justk1w1** » Tue Oct 01, 2013 8:41 am

RC MAN
I actually have 2 hk250 and 3 hk450 running MWii using little 32u4 nano wii style boards .. tricky to setup but once they are then they fly great .. watch what version u use as the later have incresaed yaw which can be difficult

Cheers

RC Man · Post by **RC Man** » Wed Oct 02, 2013 7:51 pm

Is it possible to use a regular gyro for the tail on these boards? I have a Quark, and would like to keep it if I could.

Hamburger · Post by **Hamburger** » Wed Oct 02, 2013 8:29 pm

Sure. Just run tAil from rx to gyro toservo.
you may need tail signal in fc likefor failsafe. Then you can use a y.cable.

RC Man · Post by **RC Man** » Wed Oct 02, 2013 8:42 pm

Me again,
Thanks Ham,
Do I use the Aero_Heli wii motion plus setup program?
Or is there a better one out there.

Hamburger · Post by **Hamburger** » Wed Oct 02, 2013 9:27 pm

This is MultiWii right?
I have not heard of the program you mention.

RC Man · Post by **RC Man** » Wed Oct 02, 2013 9:31 pm

Hamburger wrote:This is MultiWii right?
I have not heard of the program you mention.

Yes, it is multiwii, I got it from Patrik, for 90, 130 swashes, ive been looking at this project for a while.
Frank

RC Man · Post by **RC Man** » Wed Oct 02, 2013 10:02 pm

Hey,
Could somebody give me a parts list for this project? I would love to get started, I just need the stabilizing and leveling part of it, if possible. no motor, or tail. Both will be from tx controlled.
Thanks

Ok, I need the nanowii board, I know that, and the servos, I read that the nanowii is satellite capable, if it is, I have one of those also, Will it replace the rx also, if the sat is connected? Weight saving and fbl in 1 package

How good does it self level, will it drift alot on self level, and can you fly it normal and at mid-stick it has the self level function?

I know I'm asking alot, but who else could I ask, but the Pros in here.

Are the pin# the same as the multiwii boards?

Frank

Deet · Post by **Deet** » Fri Oct 11, 2013 8:33 am

Hi All
I am stuck

I am trying to set up a heli with a 32u4 controller

I am using the latest release code. on 120 degree cclm

I can't get the Nick servo to work. Because of the board I need to use output A0 for the nick servo

I added "SERVO[0] =SERVO[3} to the end of the 120 CCPM helicopter section on the OUTPUT.CCP but it hasn't worked

What else can I try?

PatrikE · Post by **PatrikE** » Fri Oct 11, 2013 10:08 am

Hi Deet.

In def.h
Find

#elif defined(HELICOPTER)
#define PRI_SERVO_FROM 4

Change to PRI_SERVO_FROM 1
Then you will have all available servooutputs enabled.

Deet · Post by **Deet** » Fri Oct 11, 2013 12:55 pm

PatrikE wrote:Hi Deet.

In def.h
Find
#elif defined(HELICOPTER)
#define PRI_SERVO_FROM 4

Change to PRI_SERVO_FROM 1
Then you will have all available servooutputs enabled.

Ok tried that, now the nick servo drives all the way to the lower end of travel and stays there

I then commented the line I added and changed this line
servo[3] = HeliXPIDMIX( ( SERVODIR(3,4) * nickMix[0]), SERVODIR(3,2) * nickMix[1], SERVODIR(3,1) * nickMix[2]); // NICK servo

to read this

servo[0] = HeliXPIDMIX( ( SERVODIR(3,4) * nickMix[0]), SERVODIR(3,2) * nickMix[1], SERVODIR(3,1) * nickMix[2]); // NICK servo

And got the same result

Deet · Post by **Deet** » Sat Oct 12, 2013 1:31 am

I also tried servo[1] = servo[3]; with the nick servo into A1 and got the same result

I also tried PASSTHRU and the nick servo just stays at its low point and doesn't move no matter what I do with the radio sticks

Deet · Post by **Deet** » Mon Oct 14, 2013 12:03 am

Further update

I can get the cyclic servos to work fine with V2.2

Its the latest version of V2.3 I can't get to work. No matter what I try the Nick servo just stays at minimum. The GUI does show the output changing

Chriss · Post by **Chriss** » Thu Nov 07, 2013 11:18 am

Hey there,

I want to test MWii with Arduino Pro Mini and MPU6050. I downloaded the latest version. My Heli is a Walkera DF36, 90° swashplate and FB.
Tailservo drive ok, and all sensors works well (in GUI), but nick & roll servo won't work. Both moved only a few degrees. Even if I switch to PassTru. I connected all things like this link: http://fotoflygarn.blogspot.de/2012/04/ ... opter.html
Smoothing is off and RC Input shows the full range. Normally servos have to moved in PassTru like no MWii is connected, isn't it?

Anyone have an idea to get nick & roll to work normal?

Tnaks & Regards from Germany,
Chriss

Hamburger · Post by **Hamburger** » Thu Nov 07, 2013 7:53 pm

Passthru will only disable the sensors input into servo movement but it will not disable heli 120deg mixing afaik.
I did not even k ow 90 deg mixing was supported. What did you activate in config.h

Chriss · Post by **Chriss** » Fri Nov 08, 2013 8:36 am

Hi Hamburger,

here is my config.h:

config.zip: (18.8 KiB) Downloaded 311 times

I activated #define HELI_90_DEG
Have I something forgot for Heli with ProMini and MPU6050?

Thanks & Regards from Germany

Chriss

Hamburger · Post by **Hamburger** » Fri Nov 08, 2013 7:57 pm

sorry, was away from computer; no code diving for me.

Ah, so HELI_90_DEG does exist. I have zero experience with it.
You use stock v2.2? With FB others have recommended to only use gyro mode, else FB and acc fight for control.

If the servos move at all, then you are sure to have the correct pins, good.
You can try and increase the travel for nick&roll servo by changing to #define COLLECTIVE_RANGE { 100, 0, 100 }// {Min%, ZeroPitch offset from 1500, Max%}.

If you have a pwm-meter, measure the output signal range on those servo pins. Else use the gui to check the output range for the servos.

current mixing is this: (from Output.cpp)

Code: Select all

    #ifdef HELI_90_DEG
      servo[3]  = HeliXPIDMIX( +0, (conf.servoConf[3].rate/10), -0);      //     NICK  servo
      servo[4]  = HeliXPIDMIX( +0, +0, (conf.servoConf[4].rate/10));      //     ROLL servo
      servo[6]  = HeliXPIDMIX( (conf.servoConf[6].rate/10), +0, +0);      //     COLLECTIVE  servo
    #endif

Do you have a separate collective servo (which pushes swashplate up/down)? If not, then you must change the mixing code manually.

Sirod · Post by **Sirod** » Mon Nov 11, 2013 5:01 am

Hello everyone

I have been following this helicopter integration thread and I am pleased to report
on a successful resurrection of my HBK2 from my junk box.

Following are what I have used for the FBL conversion.

- HK NanoWii as controller
- 3 Turnigy 12.5gm digital, partially metal servos for the cyclics
- 1 Corona 919 digital metal servo for the tail
- plastic FBL blade grips from Eysky's 2nd generaton FBL 550/700 series
I am budget conscious.

I have also replaced the original much abused wooden blades with Align 450 plastic blades.
I cut them to size and balanced them. They were heavier but I feel helps in stability.

I started with MultiWii 2.1 then 2.2 and now dev_2013_07_15_r1539.
I hope there are not many significant changes with the coming 2.3.
With this last branch, I am able to use the digital servos with
'A32U4_4_HW_PWM_SERVOS' - thanks Hamburger for the tip.

I mounted vertically the NanoWii on the main shaft stem, stuck on with rubber
servo gromets, vero board and double side tape. The HBK2 body does not have much of
a stiff frame, it flexes a lot. If the FC is placed in the traditional tail gyro
location, premature pitching oscillations will arise. And if placed beneath at the tray
on the rear skids, rolling oscillations will result.

My filter setting is 'MPU6050_LPF_10HZ'. I have ended up with this low freq. when I was
trouble shooting with excessive head speed. Since then I have slowed it down with
throttle/collective curves to my liking, I have not attempted to increase the filter
freq.

My current PID setting is
Roll 2.2, 0.015, 0
Pitch 3.0, 0.030, 0
Yaw 2.6 0.023,24
Level 6.0,010,100

I believe my P for roll and pitch is pretty much at max, before oscillations
starts. I am not sure how to set my I and D - anyone with MultiWii experience
with tunning single rotor CP?

I don't see much of the reported problem with tail holding on any versions of MWII
so far, maybe good enough for my non-agrresive flying style ?

I am also into more horizon mode, indeed my Aux1 is fixed at high doing lazy eights.

Appreciate any suggestions and remarks from you all.

Sirod.

Chriss · Post by **Chriss** » Mon Nov 11, 2013 8:30 am

Hi there!

@Sirod: have you a Video in flight?

@Hamburger: yes I have a seperate collective servo. But I thought COLLECTIVE_RANGE setting have only an effect for the seperate collective servo. I will give it a try. Thank you for your reply.

Regards from Sauerland!
Chriss

blackmoon · Post by **blackmoon** » Tue Nov 12, 2013 8:35 pm

Is it possible to use this for a Fixed pitch helicopter ?

By using a custom HELI_90_DEG table mix ?

Would this work?

Code: Select all

Replacing :

 #ifdef HELI_90_DEG
      servo[3]  = HeliXPIDMIX( +0, (conf.servoConf[3].rate/10), -0);      //     NICK  servo
      servo[4]  = HeliXPIDMIX( +0, +0, (conf.servoConf[4].rate/10));      //     ROLL servo
      servo[6]  = HeliXPIDMIX( (conf.servoConf[6].rate/10), +0, +0);      //     COLLECTIVE  servo
    #endif

By :

 #ifdef HELI_90_DEG
      servo[3]  = HeliXPIDMIX( +0, (conf.servoConf[3].rate/10), -0);      //     NICK  servo
      servo[4]  = HeliXPIDMIX( +0, +0, (conf.servoConf[4].rate/10));      //     ROLL servo
      servo[6]  = HeliXPIDMIX( +0, +0, +0);      //     COLLECTIVE  servo
    #endif

Thank you.

Mis · Post by **Mis** » Tue Nov 12, 2013 9:56 pm

Set SERVO7 rate to 0 and you get the same effect.

blackmoon · Post by **blackmoon** » Tue Nov 12, 2013 11:15 pm

Sorry I'm confused because I see a lot of servo[7] in the file but not in the HELI_90_DEG section.

Code: Select all

if (!f.ARMED){
      servo[7] = MINCOMMAND;          // Kill throttle when disarmed
    } else {
      servo[7] = rcCommand[THROTTLE]; //   50hz ESC or servo
      #ifdef GOVERNOR_P
        servo[7] += governorThrottle;
      #endif
      servo[7] = constrain(servo[7], conf.minthrottle, MAXTHROTTLE);   //  limit min & max    }
    }
    #ifndef HELI_USE_SERVO_FOR_THROTTLE
      motor[0] = servo[7];     // use real motor output - ESC capable
      #if YAWMOTOR
        motor[1] = servo[5];   // use motor2 output for YAWMOTOR
      #endif
    #endif

Could you point me to the right line in output.cpp ?

Thank you.

Mis · Post by **Mis** » Tue Nov 12, 2013 11:56 pm

servo[7] = SERVO8 in GUI - this is motor output for heli/aeroplane
servo[6] = SERVO7 in GUI - this is COLLECTIVE servo in heli 90

blackmoon · Post by **blackmoon** » Wed Nov 13, 2013 9:34 am

Oups I'm still using mwii before helicopter integration, so didn't check the new version of the GUI.

Thank you very much.

magmeinenseat · Post by **magmeinenseat** » Wed Nov 13, 2013 10:00 am

Hi @ all!
If been reading for al long time now and now i did the registration to getsome help from you specialists.

A few month ago I built a quadro to have some fun with and now i am trying to implement such a MultiWii system on my T-Rex 450 Pro DFC.
The software i want to use is the 2.2 version.
I've defined the helicopter, the board i am using and the gyrosmoothing. The controls and sensors are working the right way, but when i am starting the copter the controller seems to go crazy. I think the vibrations of the helicopter (motor) are disrupting the sensors. It is getting hysteric.
Is there any way to get the sensors more insensitive? What are your experiences?

Thanks alot!

Greetings from Germany
Jörg

Hamburger · Post by **Hamburger** » Wed Nov 13, 2013 3:27 pm

Set gyro lpf to 10Hz
Also start with pitch+roll p=2 i=.001