Re: vt100 as input device for config&telemetry - please test

Re: vt100 as input device for config&telemetry - please test

Postby Hamburger » Sun Jan 08, 2012 9:28 pm

I do applaud the current activity to create an open source android app to accompany the MultiWiiConf and will gladly help that to come alive.
Before we get into programming a full fledged android version of MultiWiiConf what do you think about this alternate/complimentary approach:

- we add another LCD type that speaks vt100,
- add the mandatory features from MultiWiiConf to the LCDconfiguration routine,
- run a terminal program like blueterm on the android device.

Pros/Cons
+ easy to program
+ available soon
+ as byproduct can also act as telemetry display
+ no portability risks between android versions
+ no android maintenance requirements
+ usable on other unknown platforms which provide vt100 terminal program
- no graphics
- no nice GUI
- will require key-input or TX stick input for manipulation

I am in the process of getting an android phone, so I could start coding the initial vt100 LCD type w/o bells and whistles next week.
Come to think of it there is no need to make an exclusive choice. In fact we can have both the androidical MultiWiiConf and the vt100 LCD type support in parallel.

What are the mandatory missing features from MultiWiiConf, that LCDconfiguration currently lacks?
- aux-switches setup
anything else?

What do you think? Hamburger
Update implementation is done; see page two of this thread for new info how to use and test.

Update 01/2013: vt100-aware terminal programs for fones, pads and other computers:
- palm treo use online.prc or ptelnet.prc via BT - verified
- android use blueterm via BT - verified - see attached modified blueterm with bigger fonts; thanks go to Sebbi for providing this patched version
- iphone/itablet jailbroke - try this http://www.roqy-bluetooth.net/wp/
- win* http://www.putty.org/
- win mobile - TeraTerm Pro
- windows CE 4.0 (like on Ipaq h1940) - mobilevt
- other ???
Attachments
BlueTermBig.apk.zip
blueterm patched with bigger fonts support; thanks to Sebbi
(47.9 KiB) Downloaded 144 times
Last edited by Hamburger on Sun Feb 03, 2013 10:43 am, edited 8 times in total.
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Re: vt100 as input device for configuration and telemetry

Postby Rob » Sun Jan 08, 2012 9:35 pm

I have try this already, VT100 is to slow (to many extra bytes) for telemetry.......

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Re: vt100 as input device for configuration and telemetry

Postby Hamburger » Sun Jan 08, 2012 11:28 pm

Rob wrote:I have try this already, VT100 is to slow (to many extra bytes) for telemetry.......

Rob,
very interesting you did it already. What do you mean by that? vt100 is a protocol for encoding data and display commands (like cursor positioning, clear screen etc.) if I understand it. This can be run over a serial line with 115k. Why would that be too slow? I do the same over a 115k BT connection to a dedicated BT+Serial-LCD+battery device and yes, it adds a time penalty to the mwii's main loop cycle time for the serial transmission. But it works nevertheless.

So can you please be a little more specific? Which terminal application did you use, on what kind of device did it run, over which connection type, what speed? Do you think the vt100 commands are too much overhead?
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Re: vt100 as input device for configuration and telemetry

Postby copterrichie » Sun Jan 08, 2012 11:53 pm

In the olden days, we did allot with VT100, VT52 and ANSI screen formatting however I believe this would put too much of a load and require more memory then the Aurdino can handle right now. We are pushing the limits at present.

Now if we did text only, this would work but it would not be pretty.
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Re: vt100 as input device for configuration and telemetry

Postby Hamburger » Mon Jan 09, 2012 12:35 am

copterrichie wrote:In the olden days, we did allot with VT100, VT52 and ANSI screen formatting however I believe this would put too much of a load and require more memory then the Aurdino can handle right now. We are pushing the limits at present.

I have heard about those limits. ;)
Now if we did text only, this would work but it would not be pretty.

that is what I had in mind. No fancy output formatting but simple 2 line output same as we do already with 16x2 LCDs.
And I do not care too much whether it will be ansi, vt100 or whatever the first terminal program provides that I can get my hands on.. I am glad I do not have to deal with the intricacies of the differences between ansi, vtXXX much more (remember tectronics bitwise coding?). Those days are over for real.

So I agree with you, it must be simple for various reasons.
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Re: vt100 as input device for configuration and telemetry

Postby copterrichie » Mon Jan 09, 2012 12:49 am

Then that would be an easy modification. Simply use one of the LCD routines and add code to handle the input.
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Re: vt100 as input device for configuration and telemetry

Postby Hamburger » Mon Jan 09, 2012 1:23 am

copterrichie wrote:Then that would be an easy modification. Simply use one of the LCD routines and add code to handle the input.

yes. been there, done that already.
The Textstar LCD has 4 buttons which can already be used to
- navigate the LCDconfiguration as an alternative to TX stick input
- activate/switch telemetry output

So yes, I expect it will be easy to add LCD_VT100.
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Re: vt100 as input device for configuration and telemetry

Postby copterrichie » Mon Jan 09, 2012 1:45 am

Just a suggestion, I would name it LCD_TERM, LCD_TEXT or something similar. VT100 to me, implies a protocol.
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Re: vt100 as input device for configuration and telemetry

Postby Rob » Mon Jan 09, 2012 8:36 am

@Hamburger

Before send a VT100 command you have to send ESC :

#define SENDESC
Write_char( 27 );
Write_char( '[' );

So for VT100 you send more data


send next position:

Code: Select all
   SENDESC                                                 // Send escape sequence start
        Term_Send_Value_as_Digits( row );          // Convert row byte
        Write_char( ';' );
        Term_Send_Value_as_Digits( column );     // Convert column byte
        Write_char( 'H' );




code for sending value between 0x00 and 0xFFFFFFFF

Code: Select all
//#########################################################################################
//# - Stuur een waarde tussen 0x0 en 0xFFFFFFFF  via de seriele poort leesbaar naar buiten
//# - voorloopnullen worden onderdrukt
//#########################################################################################

   void stuur_getal_terminal(unsigned char row, unsigned char column, unsigned long de_waarde){
       
      char de_teller=0;
      unsigned long temp_teller;
      
      SENDESC                                        // Send escape sequence start
        Term_Send_Value_as_Digits( row );              // Convert row byte
        Write_char( ';' );
        Term_Send_Value_as_Digits( column );           // Convert column byte
        Write_char( 'H' );
   
      for(temp_teller=1000000000; temp_teller>de_waarde ; temp_teller/=10);
         if(temp_teller<100)   Write_char('0');
         if(temp_teller<10)   Write_char('0');
         
      for(;temp_teller>=10 ; temp_teller/=10){
            while (de_waarde >= temp_teller){
              de_teller++;
              de_waarde -= temp_teller;
            }
            Write_char('0' + de_teller);
            de_teller = 0;
      }
            Write_char('0' + ((char)de_waarde));
   }
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Re: vt100 as input device for configuration and telemetry

Postby Hamburger » Mon Jan 09, 2012 10:05 am

Rob,

thanks for clarifying. I think I understand.
Currently we only use 3 commands
- clear screen
- position cursor at begin of line 1 or line 2
- draw bar graph length n, fill p%

In the confiiguration loop, timing is not critical (because copter is not armed i.e. not flying).
for telemetry we currently only ever send data to fill 16x2 display. With control chars this maxes out at about 40 chars.

For starters we can just stick to this layout. Actually we will do exactly that, because it is easiest to implement.
Later we can do two things
- enrich the telemetry display (more data)
- fragment the Serial sending into tiny portions for each main loop cycle instead of bulk sending.
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Re: vt100 as input device for configuration and telemetry

Postby Hamburger » Mon Jan 09, 2012 11:09 am

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Re: vt100 as input device for configuration and telemetry

Postby copterrichie » Mon Jan 09, 2012 2:24 pm

Hamburger wrote:vt100 concise overview here http://ascii-table.com/ansi-escape-sequences-vt-100.php


Hamburger, I believe you are onto something here. My little PDA has a Term program in it and so does most small handheld computers.
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Re: vt100 as input device for configuration and telemetry

Postby Hamburger » Thu Jan 12, 2012 1:53 pm

I did it.
vt100 implementation is done. ( also added a new set of config options to the LCDconf for setting up all the aux1/aux2 switches.)
For testing I did run it via BT to an old palm treo 650 with onlne.prc as the vt100 aware program.
Worked for me well enough. Only caveat: different terminal emulators seem to implement different subsets of vt100 control codes.

So if you are adventureous, please test:
- you need latest code of MultiWii_shared in google rep http://code.google.com/p/multiwii/sourc ... vn%2Ftrunk
or grab complete zip file here http://code.google.com/p/multiwii/sourc ... vt100-test
- a tablet, smartphone or whatever with a vt100 capable terminal program ,
- a working connection btween the arduino and that device (wired or wireless via BT or whatever)
- load into Arduino IDE version 1.0
- in config.h activate LCD_VT100 and possibly LCD_TELEMETRY, LCD_TELEMETRY_AUTO, LCD_CONF, LCD_CONF_AUX12.
- upoad and test
- for navigation use TX-sticks in configuration and enable Auto-telemetry-mode via TX-sticks for automatic switching between telemetry pages
or
try the predefined navigation keys a b c d
- report back (including the program you used on which device/operating system).
Update: for user experience I set up a new thread over at RCG http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showpost ... stcount=10
update2 tested with more terminal programs; new complete zip file available

Probably this will need some tweaking to find the common subset of control chars the emulators have implemented. So far we have
- palm treo use online.prc or ptelnet.prc via BT - verified
- android use blueterm via BT - ???
- iphone/itablet use iSSH ???
- win* ???
- win phone ???
- other ???

Enjoy, Hamburger
Last edited by Hamburger on Thu Jan 19, 2012 1:06 pm, edited 5 times in total.
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Re: Re: vt100 as input device for config&telemetry - please

Postby copterrichie » Thu Jan 12, 2012 2:25 pm

I will give this a test on my PDA and report back. Great Job!
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Re: Re: vt100 as input device for config&telemetry - please

Postby copterrichie » Thu Jan 12, 2012 3:31 pm

Do you have a direct link to the file? Seem I am unable to locate it.
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Re: Re: vt100 as input device for config&telemetry - please

Postby Hamburger » Thu Jan 12, 2012 4:03 pm

link added, see above.
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Re: Re: vt100 as input device for config&telemetry - please

Postby copterrichie » Fri Jan 13, 2012 3:44 pm

I tried this using a mega but was unable to get it to work. Apparently, I did not have all of the modified files required. Question, is there some way to download all of the files without having to checkout with svn?
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Re: Re: vt100 as input device for config&telemetry - please

Postby Hamburger » Fri Jan 13, 2012 5:15 pm

link to zip bundle added, see above.
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Re: vt100 as input device for config&telemetry - please test

Postby copterrichie » Fri Jan 13, 2012 8:04 pm

Ok, I got it to work however, the screens keep advancing as if I was pressing a key. Will have to trouble shoot why this is happening.
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Re: Re: vt100 as input device for config&telemetry - please

Postby Hamburger » Fri Jan 13, 2012 11:27 pm

can you turn off automatic CR/LF in your terminal program? Does it happen in both config and telemetry?
Which OS, which program?
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Re: Re: vt100 as input device for config&telemetry - please

Postby copterrichie » Sat Jan 14, 2012 12:11 am

I will try that however, as a side bar issue, how about using more than just two lines? You can use more being you are using cursor control.

In fact, why not just make one screen, may save on memory too. The screen format can be written to EEPROM and recalled as required. Speed is not an issue there.
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Re: Re: vt100 as input device for config&telemetry - please

Postby Hamburger » Sat Jan 14, 2012 9:50 am

I guess you are talking about the configuration menu?
Yes, it could be done. Just needs someone coding it (you?). I will not do that before we have massive feedback of it working on many different smartphones/tablets. Also will need real life experience on which control commands really work in the terminal programs/apps used.
Besides, this is a nogo for telemetry. Transmitting too much data will slow down the main loop and give reduced control. No do.
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Re: vt100 as input device for config&telemetry - please test

Postby PatrikE » Sat Jan 14, 2012 2:46 pm

Iw'e done some tests today.
Tested with Putty and can switch between the telemetryscreens.
Android works fine with BlueTerm.
Works fine.

Also tested TX commands and changing PID's
Works fine.

Autotelemetry works to.

There's one thing that bugs me...
option 5 in telemetry fills the screen with data and it will not be cleared when it changes to next screen.
Clearscreen should clear the terminalwindow.
Now only the first 2 rows is cleared.
Especially in auto telemetry the screen will be full of junk.

The issue probobly only exists if you use a terminalprogram since a LCD only have 2 rows.

Otherwise i like it :)

// Patrik
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Re: Re: vt100 as input device for config&telemetry - please

Postby copterrichie » Sat Jan 14, 2012 4:08 pm

Hamburger wrote:I guess you are talking about the configuration menu?
Yes, it could be done. Just needs someone coding it (you?). I will not do that before we have massive feedback of it working on many different smartphones/tablets. Also will need real life experience on which control commands really work in the terminal programs/apps used.
Besides, this is a nogo for telemetry. Transmitting too much data will slow down the main loop and give reduced control. No do.


Hamburger, I would however I have too many other projects on the way. I have also picked back up with writing the Config program for PDAs.

Sorry.
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Re: Re: vt100 as input device for config&telemetry - please

Postby Hamburger » Sun Jan 15, 2012 10:44 pm

fixed some vt100 control code problems - should work now on more devices.
updated code is in google rep in trunk/MultiWii_shared as revision 468.
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Re: vt100 as input device for config&telemetry - please test

Postby Hamburger » Thu Jan 19, 2012 1:07 pm

updated version available for download as complete zip file.
Has been tested with some more phones and terminal programs. Should work now with even more android/IOS/symbian/win*/other smartphones and tablets.

This is not about a nice GUI application with graphics specifically made for your device. This is supposed to become the suisse knife that works with all smartphones/tablets over all connections (wired/wireless) with all versions of MultiWii (releases and dev versions).

More info in earlier post viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1096&p=7660#p7660
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Re: vt100 as input device for config&telemetry - please test

Postby copterrichie » Fri Jan 20, 2012 7:18 pm

Ok, I have my development/test box working so that I do not have to load code onto my working copters. Here is a video of the problem I am having using Putty on a Dell Pocket PC. Because I do not have a transmitter connected to the testbox, that could be what is causing the problem but I am not sure.

Code: Select all
/* This is the speed of the serial interface. 115200 kbit/s is the best option for a USB connection.*/
#define SERIAL_COM_SPEED 115200

/* In order to save space, it's possibile to desactivate the LCD configuration functions
   comment this line only if you don't plan to used a LCD */
#define LCD_CONF
/* to include setting the aux switches for AUX1 and AUX2 via LCD */
//#define LCD_CONF_AUX_12
/* to include setting the aux switches for AUX1, AUX2, AUX3 and AUX4 via LCD */
//#define LCD_CONF_AUX_1234
/* Use this to trigger LCD configuration without a TX - only for debugging - do NOT fly with this activated */
#define LCD_CONF_DEBUG

/* choice of LCD attached for configuration and telemetry, see notes below */
//#define LCD_SERIAL3W    // Alex' initial variant with 3 wires, using rx-pin for transmission @9600 baud fixed
/* serial (wired or wireless via BT etc.) */
//#define LCD_TEXTSTAR    // Cat's Whisker LCD_TEXTSTAR Module CW-LCD-02 (Which has 4 input keys for selecting menus)
#define LCD_VT100        // vt100 compatible terminal emulation (blueterm, putty, etc.) http://ascii-table.com/ansi-escape-sequences-vt-100.php
/* i2c devices */
//#define LCD_ETPP        // Eagle Tree Power Panel LCD, which is i2c (not serial)
//#define LCD_LCD03       // LCD03, which is i2c

/* keys to navigate the LCD menu (preset to LCD_TEXTSTAR key-depress codes)*/
#define LCD_MENU_PREV 'a'
#define LCD_MENU_NEXT 'c'
#define LCD_VALUE_UP 'd'
#define LCD_VALUE_DOWN 'b'



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fbxwXHx2cNQ
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Re: Re: vt100 as input device for config&telemetry - please

Postby Hamburger » Fri Jan 20, 2012 9:07 pm

looks ok to me? what do you think is the problem?
(Since you have LCD_CONF_DEBUG defined, the mwc will cycle through all the LCDconf menu items. - only for debugging - do NOT fly with this activated).
so comment that, attach rx and good to go...
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Re: Re: vt100 as input device for config&telemetry - please

Postby copterrichie » Fri Jan 20, 2012 10:24 pm

Ok, thanks.

However, I thought you had these keys functioning in debug mode.

Code: Select all
/* keys to navigate the LCD menu (preset to LCD_TEXTSTAR key-depress codes)*/
#define LCD_MENU_PREV 'a'
#define LCD_MENU_NEXT 'c'
#define LCD_VALUE_UP 'd'
#define LCD_VALUE_DOWN 'b'


I guess I was wrong.
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Re: Re: vt100 as input device for config&telemetry - please

Postby Hamburger » Fri Jan 20, 2012 10:51 pm

the keys work.
nothing to do with debug.
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Re: Re: vt100 as input device for config&telemetry - please

Postby copterrichie » Fri Jan 20, 2012 11:19 pm

But when I tried it with the Debug commented out, I get nothing. Now if I enter "M", I get the GUI data.
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Re: Re: vt100 as input device for config&telemetry - please

Postby Hamburger » Fri Jan 20, 2012 11:39 pm

copterrichie wrote:But when I tried it with the Debug commented out, I get nothing. Now if I enter "M", I get the GUI data.

try to enter '1' to '7' for the telemetry pages.
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Re: Re: vt100 as input device for config&telemetry - please

Postby copterrichie » Fri Jan 20, 2012 11:49 pm

I entered 1 through 7 with debug disabled, nothing however I did not have the transmitter connected.
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Re: Re: vt100 as input device for config&telemetry - please

Postby Hamburger » Sat Jan 21, 2012 12:04 am

should work even without RX connected (I did use a standalone nano with BT for testing).
Sure you can send data from your device via BT?
Can your BT-enabled MWC receive data via BT?
Else, check your config.h settings again.
You can also find some info in this thread over at RCG http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1570161
HTH
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Re: Re: vt100 as input device for config&telemetry - please

Postby copterrichie » Sat Jan 21, 2012 12:05 am

Trust me, the BT works. ;)
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Re: Re: vt100 as input device for config&telemetry - please

Postby copterrichie » Sat Jan 21, 2012 12:07 am

I will see of I can troubleshoot it and get back to ya.
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Re: vt100 as input device for config&telemetry - please test

Postby copterrichie » Sat Jan 21, 2012 12:22 am

FYI, if I press the "M", I get the GUI Data.

Image
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Re: Re: vt100 as input device for config&telemetry - please

Postby PatrikE » Sat Jan 21, 2012 7:44 am

"M" Is data for the Gui. and can't be read in a terminal because it's packed and the Gui unpack it.
Terminal programs will show the packed data as scrap... :roll:

Available commands for the LCD is 1-7 for different screens.
You can also use A,B,C,D for the first 4 screens.

I have tested it on several devices and different terminal programs.
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Re: Re: vt100 as input device for config&telemetry - please

Postby copterrichie » Sat Jan 21, 2012 1:09 pm

PatrikE wrote:You can also use A,B,C,D for the first 4 screens.

I have tested it on several devices and different terminal programs.


Case Sensitive?
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Re: Re: vt100 as input device for config&telemetry - please

Postby PatrikE » Sat Jan 21, 2012 6:13 pm

copterrichie wrote:
PatrikE wrote:You can also use A,B,C,D for the first 4 screens.

I have tested it on several devices and different terminal programs.


Case Sensitive?


Absolutly! 8-)
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Re: vt100 as input device for config&telemetry - please test

Postby Hamburger » Sat Feb 04, 2012 1:07 am

update:
with vt-100, we are not limited to 2 lines, so I did a new extra page with 7 lines.
Together with the new interlaced display mechanism this works real well over BT.
Code is in the google rep _shared tree.

attached is a foto of telemetry running on my old Palm Treo handheld.
The new telemetry page I use during flight.
Other new pages are a sensor page and a page for the 8 RX inputs (all with numerics and long bar graphs).
Attachments
04022012841.jpg
telemetry via BT on handheld uses vt-100
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Re: vt100 as input device for config&telemetry - please test

Postby sismeiro » Sat May 26, 2012 1:43 am

Hi,

I am trying to use the pitch-fw, roll-left enable automatic display with dev_20120522 but doesn't work. Using the 1 to 7 or the ABCD chars works as expected. The configuration I am using is:

#define LCD_CONF
#define LCD_CONF_AUX
#define SUPPRESS_LCD_CONF_AUX34
#define LCD_VT100 // vt100 compatible terminal emulation (blueterm, putty, etc.)
#define LCD_TELEMETRY
#define LCD_TELEMETRY_AUTO "123452679" // pages 1 to 7 in ascending order

Is this a bug or a "feature"?

Regards,
Luis Sismeiro
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Re: Re: vt100 as input device for config&telemetry - please

Postby Hamburger » Sat May 26, 2012 8:06 am

Luis
Your conf looks good.
Works for me with all versions. .
Only when disarmed. Tx trim ok? No dual rate?
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Re: vt100 as input device for config&telemetry - please test

Postby sismeiro » Sat May 26, 2012 9:29 am

Hi Hamburger,

That was it, the value on the pitch stick won't go over 1900 and didn't "arm" the telemetry mode. The joy of still using an Tx with more than 23 years were the trims are mechanical. :)

Thank you for your help, going to enjoy this mode next time I fly and since I am an Unix/Linux guy is funny to still use vt100 and get a nice functionality on my quadcopter.

Regards,
Luis Sismeiro
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Re: vt100 as input device for config&telemetry - please test

Postby Hamburger » Sat May 26, 2012 10:22 am

sismeiro wrote:
That was it, the value on the pitch stick won't go over 1900 and didn't "arm" the telemetry mode.

Thank you for your help, going to enjoy this mode next time I fly and since I am an Unix/Linux guy is funny to still use vt100 and get a nice functionality on my quadcopter.
i

Glad it works for you now.
Yes. Vt100 is old school stuff.
You may want to customize your telemetry.auto sequence.
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Re: vt100 as input device for config&telemetry - please test

Postby Hamburger » Fri Jul 20, 2012 5:37 pm

list of vt100 aware terminal programs for fones, pads and other computers updated.
Also, for android Sebbi was kind enough to patch the open source blueterm program to provide for bigger fonts; thanks.
See first post of this thread.
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german anfrage vt100

Postby fixunfoxi » Wed Jan 23, 2013 9:37 pm

Hello
Amtsprache english
würe mir einer auch bitte paar Sachen in german erklären
hab hk pro 2560
GPS an UART2
wollte BT or LCD mit VT100 hängen an Uart3
wie aktiviere ich uart3 ?
hab
#define QUADP
#define FFIMUv2
#define GPS_SERIAL 2 // should be 2 for flyduino v2. It's the serial port number on arduino MEGA
#define GPS_BAUD 115200

Refernez
esc mit simonK gepimt
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_lM--Sr ... 1358913166
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Re: vt100 as input device for config&telemetry - please test

Postby PatrikE » Sun Feb 03, 2013 9:57 am

VT100 terminal for Windows.
http://www.putty.org/
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