Tricopter Flipping Out on 1.8 Help please

[2.4g Shaun]

Hi,
If you're reading this Alex can you help please. Or anybody else who has had and solved this...

Been flying my Tri for ages on 1.7 (since it came out), no problems other than the bouncy baro issue.
Brilliant to fly......
Upgraded to 1.8 and after a short time ( less than 60 seconds ) one motor would cut out and it would flip. It was random which
motor would cut. No changes to the hardware have been made only the s/w upgrade.

Esc's are HobbyKIng Super Simple but they have worked reliably to date with the previous versions.

Downgraded back to 1.7, everything is OK again.

Shaun

[cardboard]

I have recently been battling motors cutting out randomly. Its very very intermittent (might happen once every 5-6 batteries) so I keep hunting down hardware issues. Seeing someone else has a similar issue is interesting. I'm considering going back to 1.7. as much as i love 1.8, 1.7 seems to be the safer way.

[2.4g Shaun]

Hi Cardboard,

As my hardware works fine on 1.7, I can only assume, that changes in the software are causing the problems in my case.
I have set the ESC type up correctly in the software.

I would like to get it sorted as I want to start using the Baro which I understand is better in 1.8.

As I fly indoors a lot , I can't afford to have a copter flip, hence why I've gone back to 1.7.

I've been using 1.8 and now 1.8 patch 2 on my quad since it was available.....approx 100 flights, no problems whatsoever. Only difference here is I use Hobbywing Pentium esc's, so maybe the issue is with the timing of the Super Simple esc's on the quad when using 1.8

I can build and fly them, but my software skills are limited, so I've less chance than no chance of sorting the software out.

Shaun

[jevermeister]

Hi guys,
I have troubles with super simple and 1.8 too.
If I make agressive maneuvers or tilt too much in any direction the copter starts to wobble and it getting worse until it escalates after 2 seconds and I crash. I had to rebuild my QuadX after I lost the other one - I used the exact same design except using HK Super Simple 18/22 instead of Turnigy Plush. With the Plushs I did not have these Problems.

Nils

[2.4g Shaun]

So, would it be safe to assume that super simple esc's and 1.8 have a problem.
Has anybody tried supersimple esc's with 1.8 patch 2 yet?

Shaun

[jevermeister]

Has anybody tried supersimple esc's with 1.8 patch 2 yet?

The sbehavior is the same in 1.8/1.8 patch1 and 1.8patch2,

I really need to test it with 1.7.

I won't say it is the software - maybe something at my copter is broken(?) I got this issue with the chirping Flyduino ( The resonator is whistling at high pitch rates)

Nils

[2.4g Shaun]

Hi,
my tricopter has flown perfectly with 1.7 using super simple since it came out, when I put 1.8 on the fun and games started.

My quads all use Turnigy Pentium esc's. They are on 1.8 and 1.8 patch 2 software and they fly perfectly... 100's of flights to date. I'm assuming there must be some issue with the software and the cheap super simple esc's as nothing else changed on my Tri other than the software. When I downgraded it back to 1.7 it flew perfect again.

I would like to use 1.8 on my Tri as it also has the baro on and I have read it works much better on 1.8..

[jevermeister]

Maybe we can reuse the stable mode of 1.7.
I can ask alex if he helps me in inserting it into 1.8, since there are numerous problems with the stable mode.

Do you have problems with acro mode and the escs?

Nils

ps.: I really wonder what is wrong here...

[KeesvR]

It's already there, download the latest dev 20110928, here you can choose the 1.7 stable mode.
http://code.google.com/p/multiwii/downl ... p&can=2&q=

Use this at your own risk.
I just read someting about this dev.

Alex words: Yes, I know something is wrong in acro mode in the last dev.
I will check it, it's probably something dealing with the I term that is effectively reset at minthrottle.

[2.4g Shaun]

Hi,

I usually only fly my copters with the wmp and not the auto levelling activated. I only use auto levelling if I get disoriented when flying aeros around the field .

The auto levelling was not switched in when the Tricopter flipped on 1.8.

It would be great if Alex could sort this ......

I believe I could probably fix it by replacing the super simple esc's with pentiums (as they work fine on my quads on 1.8) ,but as they worked great on 1.7 it would be a shame if it can't be worked out. The problem only seems to happen with the super simple esc's or have I got that wrong....

Shaun

[Alexinparis]

Hi,

I had the same problem with a SS ESC config on a quad: everything seems ok and suddenly the quad flip with no reason.

I didn't tested it on v1.7, but for sure it was not working on 1.8.

I solved the problem by switching one SS ESCs by another one.
The faulty ESC was working good for standard PPM refresh rate (50Hz, tested behind a standard RX) but not for the multiwii.
The symptom was: if I hold firmly in my hand the multi with 50% throttle and try to move it violently, on motor stops and does not recover.

So this is one test you could do to identify a possible faulty ESC.
I admit this does not explain why it seems to work fine with 1.7 for you.

[PatrikE]

Iw'e seen some strange tendency on my machines to.
When flying in acro mode just hovering around there is no problem..

But in acro mode flying Fastforward and some harder banking it will start to drift after leveling out.
It feels like the gyro looses zero...

First time was scary I had to hold Pitch and roll stick at ~50% off center to fly level.
Managed to do a semicontrolled landing.
Tried to take off direct Just a toutch n go.
Then it fly normal again.

Tested same again same behaivor.
But now i had some altitude so i just flipped the throttlestick to min and back up.
Then it fly normal again.
Something is reset at minthrottle...

Tested it on 2 different PRO MINI setups.
Plush 25A
Quad: WM+ orig ,NB orig ,MAG
and
Quad-VTail: WM+ orig only.
It's in the 2 last dev.
On a earlier 1.8 ver it flies OK.

Am i the only one with this problem?

//Patrik

[2.4g Shaun]

Hi Alex,

thanks for the reply and info .... I'll try your suggestions..

I know in future I'll only use pentium esc's . The Tri is well over 1 year old It was my first multi wii project. I used super simple esc's because the Pentiums I normally use were out of stock... I want to use the Tri for FVP and as a platform for future wii developments with additional sensors, so I would like to persevere with it but if all it needs is changing out the esc's as an easy fix then maybe thats what I should do... Its still wierd that it has had hundreds of flights on 1.7 though.....

I'm glad I can't program and have to rely on others to sort things out like this

My contribution is flying and converting people to multicopters

Thanks

Shaun

[Alexinparis]

@PatrikE,
Yes, I know something is wrong in acro mode in the last dev.
I will check it, it's probably something dealing with the I term that is effectively reset at minthrottle.

[BlueAngel]

I had too a problem with my qaud with v1.8, which resulted in a bad crash.
I was flying FPV with the quad almost full throttle forward and suddenly all motors looses power and the quad rolled slowly forward and crashed at full speed into the ground.
I am using 4x 25A Plush ESCs and had no problems with this configuration.
It wasn't a voltage problem, because i the voltage was stable on the OSD display.
There must be something weired going on with the software, because i had absolutely no problems with the Quad with another control board. ( PCC from plejad.net)

[cardboard]

BlueAngel I had that exact same error!!! I was in fast fwd flight, my tri twitched a bit so i leveled out then a few seconds later i lost all control and it slowly rolled into the ground.
here is the footage from that day. No damage to any electronics just a busted frame.
From 8sec I lost control, I had full opposite control input but it had no effect, I was able to shut down the motors though.

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10150824525350354

[jevermeister]

A few days ago I mentioned my problems with the escalation of correction in stability mode:

My first copter had no problems like this: Only difference are the ESCs, I use Super Simple 18A instead of turnigy Plush25 now, every other detail is the same (except that I bought them all new )

Here is a Video of what happens if I do fast aggressive maneuvers:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1a8tBTXaXc



Do I expect to much of this mode? Is something wrong with PID or is it a ESC problem?
Maybe someone knows what this can be...
Nils

[jevermeister]

If anyone is interested: I fixed my problem by decreasing Level P by a few digits.
Now it is rock solid...

[kataventos]

Hi, are the Hobbywing Pentium (FlyFun) super simple ESC´s? I still don´t know how to tell the diference! I use this ESC´s and I never had this kind of problem, as I´m new on this I started directly on 1.8 then P1, P2 and 20111008 dev.

Thanks,
Henrique

[jevermeister]

´Don't know. how many settings can you modify? The Super Simple only have Brake and Lipo/NiMh.

[2.4g Shaun]

The supersimple esc's are normally supplied with black heatshrink and an orange / blue label. The pentiums are supplied in red heatshrink for the turnigy version or yellow for the hobbywing version. I have recently had 10a hobbywing esc's supplied in clear heatshrink with a black label.
As previously said..the supersimple esc'a have only a few programable options.

Shaun

[kataventos]

´Don't know. how many settings can you modify? The Super Simple only have Brake and Lipo/NiMh.

Hi jevermeister and shaun,
Ok thanks so that means that my ESC´s are not super simple because I can program the following:
-brake -off
-battery type; -lipo
-cut off type; -soft
-cut off voltage; -mid
-start mode; -normal
-timing mode; -high
-music; (no music)
-governor mode. - this is something that is hard to understand but is off.

Another question about this, in this case what do you recommend for minthrottle? I have it on 1190.

Thanks,
Henrique

[Nimzan]

Hi all. Plus 1 on da flipping quad.
Happened 3 times now since 1.8.2
30A plush esc. acro fine but seems to flip whilst in stable mode and after recovering from high angles of bank.
Have caught 2 flips on camera. Will upload.
Cheers

[Nimzan]

Hi all. Plus 1 on da flipping quad.
Happened 3 times now since 1.8.2
30A plush esc. acro fine but seems to flip whilst in stable mode and after recovering from high angles of bank.
Have caught 2 flips on camera. Will upload.
Cheers

Flip No 1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OU7rbYy12Ig

Flip No 2. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KLTMJ1Is63k

Resetting all conf back to default to test.

Cheers