Alternative ESC firmware (reflashing)

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ziss_dm
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Re: Alternative ESC firmware (reflashing)

Post by ziss_dm »

Hamburger,

The complementary PWM pssible only on nFET boards. ;( So it would not work on plush..

regrads,
ziss_dm

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Hamburger
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Re: Alternative ESC firmware (reflashing)

Post by Hamburger »

ziss_dm,
ziss_dm wrote:The complementary PWM pssible only on nFET boards. ;( So it would not work on plush..


again, on my big TRI with the 20A mystery blue ESCs flashed to r192 of wii-esc, during 4th flight one motor just stopped at height of 20m. Temperature is around 0 deg C (water freezing) if that matters - but it was 4th flight and copter had been lying in cold before first flight for > 1 hour.

Apart from the crash the flight experience in 20km/h winds was amazing (I felt I had to use level mode most of the time.)

Once I will have repaired the broken parts of the CF frame (and having checked for faulty electrics and electronics) now I am all for trying another version of firmware on these ESCs. I have a spare motor, another stock ESC and one spare flashable ESC to compare whatever you want me to run. Can measure amperes, volts and rpms if neccessary.

Hamburger

feket663
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Re: Alternative ESC firmware (reflashing)

Post by feket663 »

Dear All! I'm sorry of my newbie questions, but I can't found the solution for my problem. I'd like build a tricopter with Multiwii controller, but dont know, which ESC good for MWC. I read the forum, and I think the best solution is the Mistery or HK Blue series ESC, but currently don't stock in Hobby King. I found another esc, which have Atmega controller, external resonator, etc. this is the HK F-20 or F30 type ESC.
Image
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__15205__Hobby_King_30A_ESC_3A_UBEC.html
I read on Simon Kirby's site, the recommended firmware exactly same with Blue Series esc. Can I use on this esc the Quax firmware?

Thanks for help, and sorry for my bad english.

Sincerely: Istvan Fekete from Hungary

LenzGr
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Re: Alternative ESC firmware (reflashing)

Post by LenzGr »

Hi Istvan,

feket663 wrote:I read on Simon Kirby's site, the recommended firmware exactly same with Blue Series esc. Can I use on this esc the Quax firmware?


At least I can see 6 programming solder pads on the right, so this is a good start.

Can you post a picture of the rear side as well? You need to check if the ESC uses N-FET or P- and N-FETs to drive the motor, as this determines which firmware to use. I found this website a very helpful resource to flash my own ESCs (HK SS20-HW, just succeeded with this yesterday)

feket663
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Re: Alternative ESC firmware (reflashing)

Post by feket663 »

here is the other side:

Image

LenzGr
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Re: Alternative ESC firmware (reflashing)

Post by LenzGr »

Thanks. It's hard to tell from the picture, but it seems as this ESC uses 85N3L N-FETs only. So Simon's "bs_nfet" should be the appropriate firmware, according to the spreadsheet. But I don't know which Quax firmware would be the correct one.

The pad layout likely is this one:
Image

feket663
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Re: Alternative ESC firmware (reflashing)

Post by feket663 »

LenzGr wrote:Thanks. It's hard to tell from the picture, but it seems as this ESC uses 85N3L N-FETs only.


That's correct.

If this ESC work with same Simon's firmware than Blue Series, can work with same Quax firmware than Blue Series?

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Re: Alternative ESC firmware (reflashing)

Post by LenzGr »

feket663 wrote:If this ESC work with same Simon's firmware than Blue Series, can work with same Quax firmware than Blue Series?

I honestly don't know, you would have to ask quax directly (he actually contributed to this thread before). But why do you insist on using quax' firmware? To my knowledge, both Simon Kirby and ziss_dm have used his work as the foundation and further evolved the code base since then.

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Hamburger
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Re: Alternative ESC firmware (reflashing)

Post by Hamburger »

Hi ziss_dm,
Hamburger wrote:Once I will have repaired the broken parts of the CF frame (and having checked for faulty electrics and electronics) now I am all for trying another version of firmware on these ESCs. I have a spare motor, another stock ESC and one spare flashable ESC to compare whatever you want me to run. Can measure amperes, volts and rpms if neccessary.

I repaired the TRI's frame and have it flying again with your 20A blueseries ESCs. It still feels having (only a little) less power than the original ESCs (over at the RCG thread I found one other post mentioning that same observation of lesser power, btw.). No crash this time with 3 batteries worth of flights - temperature is up to around 10 degreees Celsius (above freeze point)

If you provide the new firmware I will give it a try in flight and on the test stand comparing original, current and the 'complementary PWM' versions. So, please fire away.
ready and (patiently) waiting, Hamburger

Matt.
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A little help getting started please

Post by Matt. »

Hi,

I just purchased the following AVR JTAG debugger and was hoping some could help me with setting up AVR studio to detect it. :-)

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/USB-JTAG-ada ... 43a7165ae3

When I connect it to my pc the serial port appears in my device tree but AVR studio does not detect it. I am also unsure which type of JTAG it is suppose to emulate.

Thanks in Advance

Matt

confused_individual
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Re: Alternative ESC firmware (reflashing)

Post by confused_individual »

Hi all,

Firstly - wow! Your firmware is solving the rather huge problem of getting an arduino to talk to an ESC. Thank you so much Quax and ziss_dm!!

However, I'm having (what I think is) a slightly odd problem:

I've got an Arduino Duemilanove and some 'Black Mantis' 30A ESC (blueseries brand - http://static.rcgroups.net/forums/attac ... %20row.jpg)

I've flashed the hex made up of the 'Mystery20A_nFET' and input 'pwm_arduino_250' files. Everything went ok, but I'm not too sure what the fuse settings should be (or whether I need to touch them at all - but I don't think this is the problem.)

Then I've connected everything together (with the esc signal in the correct arduino port, and the brown going into the ground.) A program on the arduino is set up to output a slowly increasing analogwrite value of 0 to 200 and back again (takes about a minute then repeats.)

BUT, the ESC is not arming. Here's where it gets odd though - when I take out the ground (brown) wire and touch it (with my geeky, sweaty fingers), the esc beeps (arms) and the motor starts twitching. When I put the wire back into the arduino, everything is fine and the motor starts up and follows the programmed values.

The ESC also *sometimes* arms when the ground is disconnected before I switch everything on (without having to touch the end of it.)

Do I have to send some particular signal to arm the ESC with the firmware?
- I've tried starting the ESC with analogwrite values of 0, 5, 6, 10, 20, 25 and even 50 and 100.
- If this is the solution, why would me touching the ground signal have an effect?
Are there any settings in the .inc files I need to change to get it to work?
- The 'Mystery20A_nFET.inc' Preferences section does not have an 'Overclock' section (as described on the google code wiki) which says that enabling this can have the effect of the esc not arming.


(I've read every page of this thread, but sorry if I've missed something.)

Many thanks,
Rich

ALSO - can't really donate much (as a poor student), but if you were to add a 'donate' button, or send me a paypal address, I'd at least like to offer you a couple of pints.

funth1ngs
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Re: Alternative ESC firmware (reflashing)

Post by funth1ngs »

Hi Rich,

confused_individual wrote:- I've tried starting the ESC with analogwrite values of 0, 5, 6, 10, 20, 25 and even 50 and 100.


I don't know Arduino very well, but the AnalogWrite docu says that with 0 the pin is always low. And with 5, the high pulse is maybe too long, because MIN_RC_PULS=18 with pwm_arduino_250.

Try 1 or 2 as AnalogWrite values to "arm" the ESC.

Cheers,
Heiko.

Wishnu
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Re: Alternative ESC firmware (reflashing)

Post by Wishnu »

Hello guys.
I'm absolutelly confused with MT3506 motor..
So, there is still nobody made it work well on 4s lipo?
My configuration is:
Mt3506 motor
Rctimer 18a on atmega
4s lipo
11x5 prop

Today i have tryed to flash simonk firmware and many different versions of WII firmware with different options. But there is still no success :( Two problems with different versions of wii firmware:
1. On some versions motor just do not start properly (oscilating all the time on any throttle stick position)
2. On other version it starts good, but on throttle increase just resets

So, there is still no solution of those problems or i just use wrong firmware?

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Re: Alternative ESC firmware (reflashing)

Post by howardhb »

After procrastinating for a long time, I've flashed the three HK Super Simple 20Amp ESC's on my Tri-copter with latest TGY firmware.
Instead of just soldering the programming wires, I made a "clamp" type connector from a plastic clothes-peg and hot-melt glue.
ESC_RE-FLASH connect tool.jpg

I'm using an AVRISPmkII with AVRStudio.
A handy feature of the AVRISPmkII its that it has a status LED that indicates a good connection to the pads on the ESC.
ESC_RE-FLASH tool. Connecting.jpg

I got lazy after removing the shrink sleeve and flashing the first one...
Simply cut a small "window" in the correct position in the shrink tube....apply the clamp - Voila!
Lazy Connect.jpg


I calibrated all three esc's (together) on a tri-Y-lead to a servo-tester.
I'm soo glad I've finally done this!
There is no more irritating "whine" from the motors, no more "clicking" noise!
There is a remarkable difference in the "feel" of the copter.
It's more stable in the wind and responds to turbulence far better.

THANK-YOU to everyone that contributed to getting it right!

Howard.

ziss_dm
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Re: Alternative ESC firmware (reflashing)

Post by ziss_dm »

Hi,

@Rich
"pwm_arduino_250" accepts pulse lengthes 16-2016 which corresponds to the analogWrite(2-252). With analogWrite(2) it should arm. With wii-esc you should use "original" fuses, e.g 16Mhz external oscillator (if you not planning to use bootloader)

@Wishnu
Can you please flash "latest" version froom here:
http://code.google.com/p/wii-esc/source ... vn%2Ftrunk
It should not reset.

regards,
ziss_dm

Wishnu
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Re: Alternative ESC firmware (reflashing)

Post by Wishnu »

ziss_dm wrote:Hi,
@Wishnu
Can you please flash "latest" version froom here:
http://code.google.com/p/wii-esc/source ... vn%2Ftrunk
It should not reset.

regards,
ziss_dm


Thank you! Now it do not resets :)
But one more question.
With the regular ESC firmware i've got 920gramms of thrust with my motor +12x3.8APC
With WII firmware i've got only 760gramms of thrust with the same setup. What do i need to change in the skatch? Seems like the motor just do not get the highest RPM

ziss_dm
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Re: Alternative ESC firmware (reflashing)

Post by ziss_dm »

Hi Wishnu,

Now it do not resets


This is good to know.. ;)

With the regular ESC firmware i've got 920gramms of thrust with my motor +12x3.8APC
With WII firmware i've got only 760gramms


You actually second one, who reported power drop. ;( I will try to investigate in next couple of days.

regards,
ziss_dm

Wishnu
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Re: Alternative ESC firmware (reflashing)

Post by Wishnu »

ziss_dm wrote:Hi Wishnu,
You actually second one, who reported power drop. ;( I will try to investigate in next couple of days.

regards,
ziss_dm

I've found out, that with the pwm_arduino_250 the thrust is about 850-870 gramms which is near stock firmware 920gr

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Re: Alternative ESC firmware (reflashing)

Post by ziss_dm »

Hi Wishnu,

What input profile you was using initially?

regards,
ziss_dm

Wishnu
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Re: Alternative ESC firmware (reflashing)

Post by Wishnu »

initially i use pwm_fast_250
Later i have tryed to use pwm_fast_200 and it works okay - thrust ~900gr again.
So i think it's my mistake - i've choosen wrong input profile :oops:

ziss_dm
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Re: Alternative ESC firmware (reflashing)

Post by ziss_dm »

Hi Wishnu,

pwm_fast_200 - range 1100-1900us
pwm_fast_250 - range 1000-2000us

So, most likelly your transmitter was not able to generate 2000us pulses.

regards,
ziss_dm

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Hamburger
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Re: Alternative ESC firmware (reflashing)

Post by Hamburger »

how to attach wires to blueseries 12A ESCs? Those have no pads and I cannot solder to the tqfp atmega8 pins directly (no appropriate tools and insufficient eyesight even with mag-glasses). I had hopes something like a socket type thing would exist that could be used - but came up empty.

I own 8 of these ESCs I want to use but cannot currently convert. Any advice how to proceed or any volunteers for a round of brewery produce?

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Re: Alternative ESC firmware (reflashing)

Post by LenzGr »

Hamburger wrote:how to attach wires to blueseries 12A ESCs? Those have no pads and I cannot solder to the tqfp atmega8 pins directly (no appropriate tools and insufficient eyesight even with mag-glasses). I had hopes something like a socket type thing would exist that could be used - but came up empty.

This page on the OpenPilot Wiki lists a number of possible approaches. I like the one where they used modeling clay :)

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Re: Alternative ESC firmware (reflashing)

Post by ziss_dm »

Hi Hamburger,

I have committed small change which allows you to adjust timing advance..

Code: Select all

#define    TIMING_ADV          0|1|2|3


I think, slightly increasing timing you can regain power loss, but probably in expense of efficiency.

regards,
ziss_dm

Wishnu
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Re: Alternative ESC firmware (reflashing)

Post by Wishnu »

Hellow ziss_dm,
can i somehow limit the range 1100-1700us instead of 1100-1900us?

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Re: Alternative ESC firmware (reflashing)

Post by Hamburger »

LenzGr wrote:This page on the OpenPilot Wiki lists a number of possible approaches. I like the one where they used modeling clay :)


I built an adapter with modeling clay (tradename FIMO) and pogo pins for blueseries 20A P/N-fet with pads not in row. Flashing with the adapter works sometimes (1 out of 8). very cool.

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Re: Alternative ESC firmware (reflashing)

Post by Hamburger »

ziss_dm wrote:I have committed small change which allows you to adjust timing advance..

Code: Select all

#define    TIMING_ADV          0|1|2|3


I think, slightly increasing timing you can regain power loss, but probably in expense of efficiency.

Hi ziss_dm,
will test and report back asap.
Thanks, Hamburger

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Re: Alternative ESC firmware (reflashing)

Post by ziss_dm »

Hi Wishnu,

can i somehow limit the range 1100-1700us instead of 1100-1900us?


Do you mean limit max power or scale power within narrow pulse range?

regards,
ziss_dm

Wishnu
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Re: Alternative ESC firmware (reflashing)

Post by Wishnu »

I mean limit max power

ziss_dm
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Re: Alternative ESC firmware (reflashing)

Post by ziss_dm »

Hi Wishnu,

There is a way to limit max power (you need to modify <input>.inc or better to create your own one):
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=516&start=170#p5063

regards,
ziss_dm

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Re: Alternative ESC firmware (reflashing)

Post by crashlander »

Hello,
I have couple of HK 30A ESC and I' like to know if they are reflashable (and with which HW .inc)
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/stor ... FUBEC.html
and pictures attached.

Best Regards
Attachments
DOWN.jpg
UP.jpg

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Re: Alternative ESC firmware (reflashing)

Post by Hamburger »

I am far from being an expert on this topic, but to me the fets appear to be all same, so I'd say nfet only.
Do you know this list of ESCs https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc ... ZRlE#gid=0 ?
It is not complete, especially about P/N and N-only variants, but may be helpful.

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Re: Alternative ESC firmware (reflashing)

Post by crashlander »

Hamburger wrote:I am far from being an expert on this topic, but to me the fets appear to be all same, so I'd say nfet only.
Do you know this list of ESCs https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc ... ZRlE#gid=0 ?
It is not complete, especially about P/N and N-only variants, but may be helpful.

Thank you!
Yes all FETs are the same and it is F-30A (from line 16) and bs_nfet.hex!
The question is what HW configuration from ziss_dm's firmware branch is correct (or what is the difference between Ziss_dm's and Simonk's firmwares)?

Regards
Andrej

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Re: Alternative ESC firmware (reflashing)

Post by Hamburger »

dunno.
Mystery20A_nFET seems like a good start. It definitely is for an all N-FET type. With the list for the SimonK firmware, having or not having a crystal seems to make a difference. The Mystery20A_nFET do have a crystal.
But I do not know, better ask the man.

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Re: Alternative ESC firmware (reflashing)

Post by fr3d »

hi,

I would like to reflash my DYS 30A, where can I found the firmware ?

crashlander
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Re: Alternative ESC firmware (reflashing)

Post by crashlander »

Hamburger wrote:dunno.
Mystery20A_nFET seems like a good start. It definitely is for an all N-FET type. With the list for the SimonK firmware, having or not having a crystal seems to make a difference. The Mystery20A_nFET do have a crystal.
But I do not know, better ask the man.

Yep!
You were right it works with Mystery20A_nFET.

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Re: Alternative ESC firmware (reflashing)

Post by Hamburger »

crashlander wrote:Yep!
You were right it works with Mystery20A_nFET.

glad it worked out for you.
Could you please compare the maximum thrust you get
- from flashed ESC
with
- the stock ESC?
Wih wii-esc I loose the last 5% of thrust. Ziss_dm gave some advice to correct that. Now I am in the process of experimenting.

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Re: Alternative ESC firmware (reflashing)

Post by crashlander »

Hamburger wrote:....
- from flashed ESC
with
- the stock ESC?
....


My tests shows same thrust between original ESC and flashed one.
I have tested before-mentioned ESC with KDA 20-28M and 10x4.5 prop., I have slowly increased throttle from stop (2 on extended range ESC and 125 normal) up-to 254 and consistently got 6.6N of thrust in both cases.
The Amp. draw was slightly higher with original ESC (after reaching maximum TH, I let the engine run for 5s).

Regards
Andrej

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Re: Alternative ESC firmware (reflashing)

Post by Hamburger »

cool.
Thanks for checking.

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Gaijin
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Re: Alternative ESC firmware (reflashing)

Post by Gaijin »

I built a simple ESC flashing tool (for ESC's with pads e.g HK SS30A AND 20A, Hobbyking F-20A) from a 2x3 pin header plug, the pins from servo connectors and a UsbAsp programmer, no need to clamp as it's so quick

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showpost.php?p=21262287&postcount=1970

However I've found the quad to be overshooting/ hunting and somewhat unstable with re-flashed high performance esc's (otherwise the same combination flown before), can someone suggest a more suitable default set of PID's to start tuning from, i haven't really mastered PID tuning yet

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Re: Alternative ESC firmware (reflashing)

Post by Hamburger »

Hi again,
I want to flash 3 old Plush 10A ESCs. What should I use?
- input: pwm-arduino-250, because I want to run it from MWii with maximum possible throttle resolution ,
- hw: plush30A or plush30A-16MHz <- is this a choice on my part or depending on the ESC hardware? how to decide?
Thanks.

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Re: Alternative ESC firmware (reflashing)

Post by ziss_dm »

Hi,

With pwm-arduino-250 it is better to use plush30A, as plush30A-16MHz uses "overclocked" internal RC resonator.

http://code.google.com/p/wii-esc/wiki/H ... figuration

It is not recommended to use this option with ArduinoPWM input method (or should carefully be tested on the ground) because this method has low tolerance margins and the overclocked RC generator working on 16Mhz has significant variations. The usual symptoms are:
•Esc not arming.
•Stops at full throttle (it is hard to diagnose with MWC as it reserves some throttle, it is better to use simple arduino sketch to test it).
Also over clocked RC oscillator has lower thermal stability.


regards,
ziss_dm

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Re: Alternative ESC firmware (reflashing)

Post by Hamburger »

Thanks. Will try asap.

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Re: Alternative ESC firmware (reflashing)

Post by Hamburger »

update on the Plush 10A: done. It works. (I had one motor stop in mid air exactly once, but could not yet reproduce.)
Is it just me or is the whining noise from wii-esc @ 8MHz worse than with original firmware (which runs @ 8MHz as well, afaik) ?

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Re: Alternative ESC firmware (reflashing)

Post by Hamburger »

2nd ugly update on Plush 10A: I was flying outside in gusts of 20km/h at 5 deg Celsius and had 3 crashes from motor stopping. (the motor would stop and restart soon after, but too late for copter) This happened when I was flying at maybe 60 to 70% throttle already and did increase throttle to almost full. Btw. I cannot reproduce this with copter tied to floor and a simple full throttle command.

Over at RCG I did find some info this had happened to one user with the simonk firmware and Plush 10A earlier. I could not find if the issue was somehow solved.

I would not wish to revert this copter back to the former Plush 12A silab originals; the difference in fine response granularity and stability is too convincing. But constantly crashing is not an option either.

Any input to fix this?
Hamburger

ziss_dm
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Re: Alternative ESC firmware (reflashing)

Post by ziss_dm »

Hi,
Sounds like RC oscillator has too big variation. You probably have two options: calibrate them or use 100 or 200 points input methods.

Btw: on the ground, you testing with Mwc or test sketch?

Regards,
Ziss_dm

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Re: Alternative ESC firmware (reflashing)

Post by Hamburger »

Hi ziss_dm,
How could I calibrate? I thought wii.esc has no calibfation included?
Or for 200 points, what is the usecond range, or the MWii code?
Ground test I did with mwc, not test sketch.
Thank you.

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Re: Alternative ESC firmware (reflashing)

Post by ziss_dm »

Hi,

http://code.google.com/p/wii-esc/wiki/H ... figuration

READ_CALIBRATION¶

(yes|no) – On boards without external crystal, the internal clock source (8 MHz) must be used. Due to manufacturing tolerances, it's possible to calibrate it with an external program (e.g. PonyProg?). The calibration value is stored in the EEPROM and can be used by this firmware. It should be disabled on boards with external resonator or when OVERCLOCK is defined.


Basically it reads last byte of EEPROM and writes it to the OSCCAL register. There are official Atmel procedure, but it possible to do it emperically: find limit values and set something in the middle.

The range: 1100-1900us

It is better to use test sketch, as MWC reserves some throttlle at the end of the range.

redgards,
ziss_dm

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Re: Alternative ESC firmware (reflashing)

Post by Hamburger »

thanks. Next time I will RTFM before asking.
After all, the Plush ESC do not seem to be a good choice.
I wull try the 200 points input method. Should be interesting to see the difference between the 200points and the stock firmware. Either way I loose the higher resolution on the MWii side.
Btw. I use 2S battery and emax gt 2203 like here http://www.modelpascher.com/catalog/pro ... ct99stjd95
Cheers

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Re: Alternative ESC firmware (reflashing)

Post by crashlander »

Hamburger wrote:update on the Plush 10A: done. It works. (I had one motor stop in mid air exactly once, but could not yet reproduce.)
Is it just me or is the whining noise from wii-esc @ 8MHz worse than with original firmware (which runs @ 8MHz as well, afaik) ?


I'm running QuadX with three HK F-30A (with external oscillator, from few posts back) and one Plush 30A (destroyed original HK F-30A during soldering and testing) and can confirm that motor with Plush makes REALY annoying whining noise. Otherwise Plush works good for me.

Regards Andrej

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