Alternative ESC firmware (reflashing)

Re: Alternative ESC firmware (reflashing)

Postby crashlander » Sat Oct 06, 2012 11:47 am

Hamburger wrote:Try set MINCOMMAND 1008. I think that is used for initializing?

Thank you! That did the trick yes.
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Re: Alternative ESC firmware (reflashing)

Postby crashlander » Sun Oct 07, 2012 3:41 pm

Hello,
where are BEMF caps on HobbyKing Blue Series 12A ESC.

Regards
Andrej
Attachments
annotated esc.jpg
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Re: Alternative ESC firmware (reflashing)

Postby vpb » Sun Oct 07, 2012 6:25 pm

Has aybody tried new Simonk fw (30 Sep) on F-30A esc? Any performance gains: heat, longer flight time...etc?
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Re: Alternative ESC firmware (reflashing)

Postby ziss_dm » Mon Oct 08, 2012 12:53 am

Hi,

HKBlue12A_Cs_MБssenRaus.JPG



regards,
ziss_dm
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Re: Alternative ESC firmware (reflashing)

Postby crashlander » Mon Oct 08, 2012 7:15 am

ziss_dm wrote:Hi,

regards,
ziss_dm


Thank you.
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Re: Alternative ESC firmware (reflashing)

Postby razorconcepts » Thu Oct 25, 2012 2:51 am

In the wii-esc source code, does anyone know where the FET on/off methods ( AnFETOff(), ApFETOff() , etc..) are located? I'm trying to compile it myself but all of those functions seem to be missing.
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Re: Alternative ESC firmware (reflashing)

Postby sim » Thu Oct 25, 2012 6:57 pm

In src/hal/bs_nfet.h, for example, included by core.h. See makefile.avr.
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Re: Alternative ESC firmware (reflashing)

Postby scrat » Fri Oct 26, 2012 1:15 pm

Hi,

question regarding ESC's:

Now I have set MINCOMMAND to 1000 in config.h. I have simonk esc's. When I plug the battery in, everytime I should hear 4 beeps. 3 for 3S lipo and one for inicialisation. Sometimes I hear just 3 beeps but quad works normaly.

Will bo something wrong if I set MINCOMMAND to 950 or leave at 1000?

Thank you.
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Re: Alternative ESC firmware (reflashing)

Postby vpb » Sat Oct 27, 2012 3:43 am

I use 950 for F-30 reflashed with simonk fw, never have any problem.
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Re: Alternative ESC firmware (reflashing)

Postby scrat » Sat Oct 27, 2012 11:56 am

Thanks.

EDIT: I have set mincommand now to 950 and esc's inicialise every time :)
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Re: Alternative ESC firmware (reflashing)

Postby ziss_dm » Sun Nov 04, 2012 8:53 am

Hi,

The new version of wii-esc is available 2.0.9:

1) Added possibility to adjust end-points using stick programming procedure (full throttle, power-up, wait for 2 beeps, throttle down, wait for long beep).
2) Tweaked pwm on/off procedures for complimentary pwm, to archive constant dead-time.

regards,
ziss_dm
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Re: Alternative ESC firmware (reflashing)

Postby Hamburger » Sun Nov 04, 2012 11:33 am

1) Added possibility to adjust end-points using stick programming procedure (full throttle, power-up, wait for 2 beeps, throttle down, wait for long beep).

this can be disabled at compile time, I suppose?
I like wii-esc version 1 beyond other aspects because it is _not_ configurable at run time; so whatever stupid happened on the input side (like MultiWii fc outputs), that could not de-calibrate the ESC; effect: the ESC always worked with the same compile time settings, period.
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Re: Alternative ESC firmware (reflashing)

Postby ziss_dm » Sun Nov 04, 2012 12:18 pm

It can be disabled in EEPROM config. :)
Basically all shipped configs, except "default" have this disabled.
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Re: Alternative ESC firmware (reflashing)

Postby Hamburger » Sun Nov 04, 2012 12:28 pm

perfect.
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Re: Alternative ESC firmware (reflashing)

Postby Quad FRITZ » Wed Nov 07, 2012 6:36 pm

Does the WiiESC FW also have a bootloader or will it "kill" the bootloader I have in my ESC from the SimonK FW?

Did somobody try to use: https://github.com/c---/ArduinoUSBLinker instead f using the Turnigy USB linker with the kkMulticopter Flash Tool?

Thanks

Btw: MT 2814-10 770kV is giving problems with original SimonK FW- for this reason I want to flash the wiiEsC FW to my F-30A ESCs
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Re: Alternative ESC firmware (reflashing)

Postby crashlander » Wed Nov 07, 2012 8:33 pm

Hello,
today I made a mistake and flashed bs_nfet on a old bs with P/N fets...
... the magic smoke escaped...
The question is which is the part that dyes that way? Is it user replacable?
I'm talking about old HK-12A BlueSeries (http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/stor ... oller.html) and in accordance to (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc ... ZRlE#gid=0) it should be all N.

Regards Andrej
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Re: Alternative ESC firmware (reflashing)

Postby ziss_dm » Thu Nov 08, 2012 1:01 am

Hi,

WiiESC not "bundled" with bootloader. That means you can use any bootloader of your choice. If you do not have off-the-shelf USBLinker it is easier to use AVRRootLoader as schematic is just one resistor with FTDI (published 1 or 2 pages before). Also Wii-ESC flash tool has support for it. If you want to use Simonk bootloader easiest provcedure:
1) Flash RapidESC through ISP
2) set fuses through ISP
3) flash wii-esc through USBLinker

The question is which is the part that dyes that way? Is it user replacable?


Usually P-FETs ;( You can buy them on Ebay, but usually it is faster and cheaper to replace whole board.


@Quad FRITZ: You also need to remove BEMF filtering caps.

Image

regards,
ziss_dm
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Re: Alternative ESC firmware (reflashing)

Postby crashlander » Thu Nov 08, 2012 9:31 am

Hello,
I have issues with ziss_dm's AVRootLoader and WII-ESC Flash tool:
1. flashing HK's F-30A over USBasp with ESCBL1.hex
2. Using AVRootloader to flash bs_nfet.hex
3. Unsuccessfully using AVRootloader to write eeprom settings, ESC/rootloader does not responds anymore!

If I invert steps 2 and 3 it works, but only one time.
IMHO: it looks like actual flash for ESC overwrites part of rootloader!?

The behavior is same with flash tool 0.4 and 0.5 and with ESC flash from r433 and current.
Flashing everithing with plain USBasp works.

Regards
Andrej
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Re: Alternative ESC firmware (reflashing)

Postby gompf-2 » Thu Nov 08, 2012 5:21 pm

Hi crashlander
IMHO: it looks like actual flash for ESC overwrites part of rootloader!?

This happens if you don´t write the lockbits for the bootloader section after writing the bootloader, have a look at the boards.txt of arduino for Mega8 boards:
Code: Select all
atmega8.bootloader.unlock_bits=0x3F
atmega8.bootloader.lock_bits=0x0F

Be very careful what you type to avrdude at this point and read twice before hitting return...

As you can write the bootlaoder once it seems to be unlocked now, so you have to
1. Flash ESCBL1.hex via ISP
2. Use avrdude to lock bootloader section
3. Use bootloader to write flash/ee2

Regards,
gompf
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Re: Alternative ESC firmware (reflashing)

Postby crashlander » Thu Nov 08, 2012 6:00 pm

Ups... :o
I had impression that when using WII-ESC-Flash tool it takes care of fuse (and other) bits.
But it seems not.
I guess/hope/persume that lockbits can be inverted (unlike reset disable)?!

Regards
Andrej
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Re: Alternative ESC firmware (reflashing)

Postby gompf-2 » Thu Nov 08, 2012 10:14 pm

Sure,
for Mega8 with AVR pocket programmer this did the job for me:

UnLock
[path]\avrdude.exe -C [path]\avrdude.conf -p m8 -P usb -c usbtiny -U lock:w:0x3F:m

Lock
[path]\avrdude.exe -C [path]\avrdude.conf -p m8 -P usb -c usbtiny -U lock:w:0x0F:m

Regards,
gompf
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Re: Alternative ESC firmware (reflashing)

Postby scrat » Fri Nov 09, 2012 7:43 am

crashlander wrote:Ups... :o
I had impression that when using WII-ESC-Flash tool it takes care of fuse (and other) bits.
But it seems not.
I guess/hope/persume that lockbits can be inverted (unlike reset disable)?!

Regards
Andrej


Try using this tool for flashing ESC's - wiiesc is also supported: http://lazyzero.de/en/modellbau/kkmulticopterflashtool
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Re: Alternative ESC firmware (reflashing)

Postby mr_westie » Mon Nov 19, 2012 8:06 am

Hi, I would like some help identifying the BEMF capacitors on a Blueseries 30A :)
http://static.rcgroups.net/forums/attac ... %20row.jpg

Image

And some tips on how to find them in future as I have another ESC coming.
F-30A
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Re: Alternative ESC firmware (reflashing)

Postby bartwaw » Mon Nov 19, 2012 8:18 am

I've got same problem with identifying BEMF capacitors in RCTimer 20A.

I've also read that they can be changed with 40pF ones. Is it true ?

Image
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Re: Alternative ESC firmware (reflashing)

Postby mr_westie » Mon Nov 19, 2012 8:56 am

I think I worked it out.
Image

Should be these 3?
Cyan
Image
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Re: Alternative ESC firmware (reflashing)

Postby bluuu » Tue Nov 20, 2012 5:29 pm

I read the whole topic and the WIKI pages and I not found simple answers for the question:
How could be set fusebits for ESC.

with/witchout watchdog ? (WDTON)
what about CKOPT ?
BODLEVEL ? BODEN ?
startup time ?

I think it will be good time to clearly listed fusebits to set up.
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Re: Alternative ESC firmware (reflashing)

Postby ziss_dm » Wed Nov 21, 2012 4:51 am

Hi,

Generally, you need to modify fuses only in some cases:
1) To disable watchdog (if it if enabled by default)
2) To enable bootloader (if needed)
3) On boards without OSC, it is better to set brown out detection to 4.0v (as they are running on 16Mhz)

The rest is depend on schematic and component's used by manufacturer, so it is better to not touch them. So, I always read existing fuses, check them, and write-back.

@mr_westie:
You are absolutelly correct. ;)

regards,
ziss_dm
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Re: Alternative ESC firmware (reflashing)

Postby otti20vt » Thu Nov 22, 2012 11:21 am

Hello,

Last Sunday i flash 4 ESC with Wiiesc and it looks like this firmware are slightly better then SimonK...

for all who flash esc, build a stand like this.

Sorry for my Bad English :)
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prg.jpg
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Re: Alternative ESC firmware (reflashing)

Postby Hamburger » Thu Nov 22, 2012 3:40 pm

for my helicopters I use Multiwii and F-40A escs on 3S. So it is time to reflash with wii-esc firmware, but I cannot modify the hardware, so removing smd caps is not an option. As a consequence I will need to use the former version 1 of wii-esc. The ESC is all n-fet, so I think I should use Mystery20A_nFET with pwm_arduino_250', right?

But what confuxes me is this:
when looking at the simonk firmwares spreadsheet it says to use simonk: bs.hex for the f40a all n-fet. But to my understanding (and from what I can see for other esc brands) bs.hex is suited for p/n-fet esc? For smaller sizes of the F-xxA series the bs_nfet.hex is choosen as one would expect?

As I currently do not have a spare esc to experiment I would prefer to confirm this before bricking the esc.
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Re: Alternative ESC firmware (reflashing)

Postby crashlander » Thu Nov 22, 2012 4:50 pm

@Hamburger: Not sure about your specific ESC but Turnigy TY-P1 are all N-fets and are using bs.hex. I know since I'm using it!

Regards Andrej
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Re: Alternative ESC firmware (reflashing)

Postby Hamburger » Thu Nov 22, 2012 5:51 pm

Andrej,
ok; thanks for verifying. So bs.hex is not strictly tied to p/n-fet. Which old wii-esc variant would you use for that esc then?
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Re: Alternative ESC firmware (reflashing)

Postby crashlander » Thu Nov 22, 2012 9:11 pm

This thread way back:
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=516&p=5980&hilit=crashlander#p5941
But of course it was/is TY-P1.

Regards Andrej
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Re: Alternative ESC firmware (reflashing)

Postby sim » Fri Nov 23, 2012 1:38 am

otti20vt wrote:Last Sunday i flash 4 ESC with Wiiesc and it looks like this firmware are slightly better then SimonK...


hello! Just out of interest, what do you like better about it?

Simon-
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Re: Alternative ESC firmware (reflashing)

Postby ziss_dm » Fri Nov 23, 2012 7:08 am

so removing smd caps is not an option.


Use side-cutters ;)

regards,
ziss_dm
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Re: Alternative ESC firmware (reflashing)

Postby Hamburger » Fri Nov 23, 2012 11:15 am

ok; brute force it is :)
I found this photo with labels for programming:
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthre ... st20984995
Can you identify the caps in question just by looking at that? (All Ihave is a multimeter, if that was neccessary).
With the version 2 line of wii-esc, you use same names as database&simonk for output, so I would use bs.hex.
Thank you.
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Re: Alternative ESC firmware (reflashing)

Postby jy0933 » Fri Nov 23, 2012 11:30 pm

a quicky.. seems the latest fw has the "complimentary pwm"

is that the new "stick calibration" firmware?

I actually prefer the pwm range set in stone.. which should i choose

thx
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Re: Alternative ESC firmware (reflashing)

Postby ziss_dm » Sun Nov 25, 2012 11:46 pm

Hi,

@Hamburger:
The schematic: http://wii-esc.googlecode.com/svn/doc/S ... y-nFET.jpg
Using multimiter, you can find them checking connction between pin 19, 22, 23 of the MCU

@jy0933:
You can disable stick calibration in EEPROM block.



regards,
ziss_dm
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tgy-fix.png
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Re: Alternative ESC firmware (reflashing)

Postby thebgrian » Wed Nov 28, 2012 5:27 pm

Thank you, ziss_dm for the great work, and for giving us another option:)
I would like to confirm that the BEMF capacitors for HobbyKing F-20/30 are the three capacitors in line, next to the pads used for flashing. I think I found that in the rcdesign.ru forum, but can't find it again.
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Re: Alternative ESC firmware (reflashing)

Postby jy0933 » Thu Nov 29, 2012 3:09 am

@dizz

a quick question about lagging start up

here's a quick video showing what is happening

the cap is removed....

it seems there isnt much lag after motor started spinning....

but since it is build for aerobatic... the lag start will cause problem at some point

any suggestion that might help to get rid of the lag?

thx

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qR4dZgYTgQg
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Re: Alternative ESC firmware (reflashing)

Postby ziss_dm » Thu Nov 29, 2012 4:27 am

Hi jy0933,

Generally with multi-rotors, motors always running during the flight. (throttle never drops below MIN_THROTTLE, which should be configured to get stable Idle RPM) ;)

The lag you referring is safety feature, to prevent accidental motor startups. (re-connecting connectors, rebooting FC, etc..)
BTW: It looks long only with 50hz receiver, with real FC, the delay 10x times shorter. ;)

regards,
ziss_dm
Last edited by ziss_dm on Thu Nov 29, 2012 4:36 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Alternative ESC firmware (reflashing)

Postby jy0933 » Thu Nov 29, 2012 4:33 am

anyway to remove that feature?

since i'm trying aerobatic.. might have some 0/low throttle maneuver

it is ok if there is no way to remove that tho... i'll just not do zero throttle
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Re: Alternative ESC firmware (reflashing)

Postby ziss_dm » Thu Nov 29, 2012 4:47 am

If we are talking about MultiWii, the throttle never drops below MIN_THROTTLE, which should be configured to get stable Idle RPM.

Attempt to stop motors in-flight would lead to crash in 90% of cases, with any ESC or ESC FW. ;) This is because start of sensorles brushless motor is lenghthy trial-error process, which could take a couple of seconds.

regards,
ziss_dm
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Re: Alternative ESC firmware (reflashing)

Postby jy0933 » Thu Nov 29, 2012 4:55 am

we are only talking about the esc firmware... the video i took was rx directly hooked up with esc

just want to smooth that lag out towards more linear... and instant..

i do realize it will be destructive stopping motor in the air... what i attempt to do is boomerang.. when quad is in the air.. the lagged output might cause problem
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Re: Alternative ESC firmware (reflashing)

Postby ziss_dm » Thu Nov 29, 2012 5:21 am

the video i took was rx directly hooked up with esc

1) RX - 50hz, FC - 500hz with FC connected delay 10x shoter, which is almost unnoticable.
2) Most FC's has "armed" state. After FC is armed motors start spinning and never stops until you "disarm".


just want to smooth that lag out towards more linear... and instant..

3) Unfortunately there are no such thing like "instant" start of sensorless brushless motor ;) There are always pre-align, power rump-up, blind commutations, wrong direction spins, etc.. until motor spins fast enough to generate detectable back EMF. So this safety lag is pretty-much nothing compraretivelly to the rest. If you need instant start, you need to use sensored ESC/Motor ;)

BTW: what is "boomerang"? ;)
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Re: Alternative ESC firmware (reflashing)

Postby jy0933 » Thu Nov 29, 2012 6:24 am

boomerang
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aKn0LXm ... ata_player

basically gonna need to set Minthrottle of fc to/below min-esc to prevent cutting myself


I'll try to use 3s batt... the vid is with 2s battery ... But compare to stock.. it is still a bit slower..

I'll get back here after tried with 3s
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Re: Alternative ESC firmware (reflashing)

Postby ziss_dm » Thu Nov 29, 2012 6:26 am

Hi,

I had impression that when using WII-ESC-Flash tool it takes care of fuse (and other) bits.


The latest WII-ESC-Flash v0.6 has ability to program hfuse (turn on/off bootloader support) ;)
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Re: Alternative ESC firmware (reflashing)

Postby ziss_dm » Thu Nov 29, 2012 6:38 am

I'll try to use 3s batt... the vid is with 2s battery ... But compare to stock.. it is still a bit slower..
I'll get back here after tried with 3s


Try with FC, instead of RX. ;)
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Re: Alternative ESC firmware (reflashing)

Postby jy0933 » Thu Nov 29, 2012 8:05 am

here's a small comparison
noted: I DON'T mean to say who is better or not.. just simply run in this problem and reporting it back... not meaning anything other than this


set up

er9x+frsky radio
hk F40A
t-motor 2212 980kv
haiyin 3s 2200mah 25c


clip 1.. wii esc.. (removed capacitor)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uTVnkGaNUXI

you can notice sudden stick up from stall.. it has a fairly apparent delay (0.5+ sec?)


clip2 simon's fw (not removed cap)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h8SB16FPO0U
there is lag too.. but not as significant..


other notes:
i thought it might has todo with timing.. so i changed timing to +1 , +2... did not improved the delay/lag
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Re: Alternative ESC firmware (reflashing)

Postby ziss_dm » Thu Nov 29, 2012 10:30 pm

Try with FC, instead of RX.
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Re: Alternative ESC firmware (reflashing)

Postby jy0933 » Thu Nov 29, 2012 10:49 pm

as you said.. connected to fc

seems improved..(tho still a bit laggy).

but another problem came in

it makes irritate noise at low rpm(you can hear in vid around 48s).. it's new... the motor and esc are in good condition.. tested with other esc(fw).. no noise
IMG_20121129_165357.jpg


vid

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RP9WDSkrEFY








just to confirm.. cuz i might have removed wrong caps

are the red-circled right ones?

the whole thing could just be the stupid me removed wrong caps

img_5305.jpg
Last edited by jy0933 on Fri Nov 30, 2012 12:14 am, edited 3 times in total.
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